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Glenn Snow
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Re: Stonewall - model game for Black wanted
Reply #9 - 11/27/03 at 21:03:24
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Yes White is trying to play an improved From's gambit.  I think it gives White full compensation as opposed to the From's Gambit which I think is tricky but unsound.  btw I'm basing this opinion on the variations given in the book by Dunnington you mentioned.  Perhaps there are improvements?
  
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Re: Stonewall - model game for Black wanted
Reply #8 - 11/24/03 at 22:21:46
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I remember Dunnington covering this move in Unorthodox Openings.  Isn't the idea to get play similar to From's Gambit?
  
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Re: Stonewall - model game for Black wanted
Reply #7 - 11/23/03 at 18:21:23
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Aren't many players of 1.f4 ready to meet 1...f5 with 2.e4!?.  Although I suppose most Dutch defense players would still be comfortable in the resulting positions.
  
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Re: Stonewall - model game for Black wanted
Reply #6 - 11/20/03 at 19:27:31
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An interesting (and, in my opinion, sound) idea that will surely get White out of his home preparation and previous experience would be to meet 1. f4 with f5! The idea is to basically setup a dutch formation for black, play e5, and then either attack on the kingside or expand on the queenside. I would recommend either a modern stonewall or leningrad setup. This system works well for Dutch players in general because it can be played regardless of whether White opens with 1. f4 or 1. d4.

Another continuation I have used on occasion against 1. f4  is the gambit 1...e5!? 2. fxe5 and now either 2...d6 3. exd6 Bxd6 4. Nf3 Bg4 is an interesting and off-beat line of the From Gambit while 2...Nc6 will often transpose into the from but is a bit more restrained.

Against 1. e3, you can play d5 and then if White plays the stonewall you can dead for a dutch with f5, c6 , e6, and then your choice of Be7, Bd6 or g6 and Bg7 (the latter being a "Leningrad Stonewall" formation); play f5 with a possible transposition into the above line; or play e5 (probably best) since you can later exchange on d4 and then throw in g6, Bg7, c5, and a later Nc6 to step up the pressure against d4. In general, the best systems against the Stonewall and its relative, the Colle, tend to be ones that allow one or both of the following: an early e5 break by black or a fianchetto of the king's bishop with g6 and bg7 since it blocks white's light squared bishop which will seldom be placed anywhere other than d3. If you want me to post some games with 1. f4 f5(!) or 1. e3 e5 or 1. e3 f5, let me know and I'll try to dig some up.

-Mitch
  
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Re: Stonewall - model game for Black wanted
Reply #5 - 10/14/03 at 07:46:38
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Done. Enjoy.
  
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Re: Stonewall - model game for Black wanted
Reply #4 - 10/13/03 at 17:06:33
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Quote:
Theres is also a section on the Stonewall for White under "d-pawn specials" - it has been lumped into the e-book with the Barry Attack, the London system and the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit.


Thank you Alumbrado for pointing me towards the right section, and special thanks to Sacanode for his insightful games and comments.

As I've obvisouly posted in the wrong section, could Mr. Yaltmax please move this post to the d-pawn specials. I guess it could be of interest for many other people.
  
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Re: Stonewall - model game for Black wanted
Reply #3 - 10/13/03 at 02:42:55
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The Stonewall Dutch is covered under "Daring Defences to 1.d4".  Theres is also a section on the Stonewall for White under "d-pawn specials" - it has been lumped into the e-book with the Barry Attack, the London system and the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit.
Incidentally, if you are really thirsty for some Stonewall action, Jacob Aagaard's book on the Stonewall Dutch is great - especially explaining how modern players use the Stonewall not just as an attempt to get a kingside hack.  Lots of great games in there.
  
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Re: Stonewall - model game for Black wanted
Reply #2 - 10/12/03 at 04:46:42
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Oh, I forgot something.  I think the stonewall would most likely be covered under the d-pawn specials, though I am not sure if it has had any coverage there.
  
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Re: Stonewall - model game for Black wanted
Reply #1 - 10/12/03 at 04:40:29
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Here's a simple plan used by GM Ubilava when white goes directly for a stonewall with 2.d4.

[Event "Lisbon op 5th"]
[Site "Lisbon"]
[Date "1999.11.06"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Costa,Americo"]
[Black "Ubilava,Elizbar"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "D00"]
1.f4 d5 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nf3 Bf5 4.e3 e6 5.Be2 Bd6 6.0-0 Nbd7 7.Nbd2 c5 8.Ne5 h6
9.c3 a6 10.g4 Bh7 11.Qe1 Ne4 12.Nxe4 Bxe4 13.Bf3 Nf6 14.Qh4 Bxf3 15.Nxf3 Qe7 16.Rf2 0-0-0
17.Rg2 g5 18.fxg5 hxg5 19.Qf2 Ne4 20.Qe2 Rh3 21.Bd2 Rdh8 22.Rf1 Qc7 23.Be1 f5 24.gxf5 exf5
25.dxc5 Qxc5 26.Nd4 Bxh2+ 27.Rxh2 Rxh2 28.Qxh2 Rxh2 29.Kxh2 Qc4 30.Rxf5 Qxa2 31.Kh3 Qxb2 32.Rxd5 g4+
33.Kh4 Qh2+ 34.Kxg4 Nf6+ 0-1

Ok, this is a Bf5 system, but I thought this was an effective system when white has committed himself to f4 so early in the stonewall.

Here are some games of interest with ...g6:

A bad day for Tartakower.  When he played 10.Bxe4, I wondered if he missed the loss of the exchange.  Well, anyway I think black was doing quite well already at this point.  This shows a problem the stonewall has against this setup: black has firm control over e4, but with black able to contest the e5 so easily, the stonewall seems to lose a lot of its point. 

[Event "Teplitz-Schoenau"]
[Site "Teplitz-Schoenau"]
[Date "1922.??.??"]
[Round "13"]
[White "Tartakower,Saviely"]
[Black "Teichmann,Richard"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "A03"]
1.f4 d5 2.Nf3 g6 3.e3 Bg7 4.d4 Nf6 5.Bd3 0-0 6.Nbd2 b6 7.Qe2 c5 8.c3 Bb7
9.0-0 Ne4 10.Bxe4 dxe4 11.Ng5 Ba6 12.Qf2 Bxf1 13.Qxf1 Nd7 14.Ndxe4 h6 15.Nf3 Nf6 16.Nxf6+ exf6
17.Bd2 Re8 18.Rd1 Rc8 19.Bc1 Qe7 20.d5 c4 21.Nd4 Qd7 22.Nc6 b5 23.b3 Re4 24.Ba3 f5
25.bxc4 bxc4 26.Bb4 Kh7 27.Qe1 a6 28.Qd2 Bf6 29.g3 h5 30.Kf2 h4 31.Bc5 Kg8 32.a4 Kh7
33.a5 g5 34.Bb6 g4 35.Nb4 Kg6 36.Nxa6 hxg3+ 37.hxg3 Rh8 38.Kg2 Rh3 39.Rh1 Bxc3 40.Nc5 Bxd2
41.Nxd7 Rxh1 42.Kxh1 c3 43.Nc5 c2 44.Nb3 Rb4 45.d6 Rxb3 46.d7 c1=Q+ 0-1

I think the plan used by Yanofsky is a model plan for black to follow.  Watch how he slowly strangles white:

[Event "CAN-ch"]
[Site "Vancouver"]
[Date "1965.??.??"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Veszely,Frank"]
[Black "Yanofsky,Daniel Abraham"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "A03"]
1.f4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 g6 4.d4 Bg7 5.Bd3 c5 6.c3 Qc7 7.Ne5 Nc6 8.0-0 0-0
9.Nd2 Ne8 10.Ndf3 Nd6 11.Bd2 c4 12.Bc2 Bf5 13.Bxf5 Nxf5 14.Qc2 f6 15.Nxc6 Qxc6 16.Rae1 Nd6
17.Bc1 b5 18.a3 a5 19.g4 Ne4 20.Nd2 f5 21.gxf5 Rxf5 22.Nxe4 dxe4 23.Rf2 Rb8 24.Ref1 Qd5
25.Rg2 e6 26.Rg3 Rh5 27.Qg2 Bf6 28.Kh1 Qf5 29.Rg1 Kf7 30.Qc2 Qd5 31.Qg2 Qf5 32.Qc2 Bh4
33.Rg4 Be7 34.R4g3 Rh4 35.Qe2 Qd5 36.Qf2 Qh5 37.Qg2 b4 38.axb4 axb4 39.Qd2 b3 40.Qg2 Ra8
41.h3 Qf5 42.Kh2 Rh5 43.Bd2 Ke8 44.Rf1 Ra2 45.Bc1 Ra1 46.Kg1 Rb1 47.Kh1 Qd5 48.Rg4 Rf5
49.Qe2 Qc6 50.Rg2 Ra5 51.Qg4 Qd5 52.Rgf2 Raa1 53.Qg1 Ra2 54.Qg2 Qf5 55.Re2 Bh4 56.Rd2 Bd8
57.Rfd1 Qd5 58.Rf1 Ba5 59.Kg1 Kf7 60.Qh2 Bd8 61.Qe2 Ke8 62.Qg4 Kd7 63.Re2 Qf5 64.Qg2 Kc6
65.Kh2 Qd5 66.Rg1 Bh4 67.Rd2 Qh5 68.Rf1 Raa1 69.Qh1 Be7 70.Rg2 Qf5 71.Rd2 g5 72.Rg2 gxf4
73.exf4 Rxc1 0-1

I hope this helps.

Although this isn't a stonewall (though it is a Bird by transposition), I am reminded a rapid game between Larsen and Karpov, where Karpov seemed to obtain a clear advantage after Larsen made typical Bird moves.  It reminds me of the dangers stonewall (or Colle, Torre, London system, etc.) players face when they play their system against everything without look at what their opponent is doing.  Ok, this isn't fair to Larsen, since is one the most imaginative and innovative players in chess history, but by his play in the opening, I wouldn't have guessed he was playing the white pieces.  Karpov's refutation is so simple!

[Event "Roquebrune rapid"]
[Site ""]
[Date "1992.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Larsen, Bent"]
[Black "Karpov, Anatoly"]
[Result "0-1"]
[NIC "VO 8.10.6"]
[ECO "A01"]
[PlyCount "114"]

1. b3 d5 2. Bb2 Nf6 3. e3 e6 4. f4 b6 5. Nf3 Bb7 6. Be2 c5 7. O-O Nc6 8. Ne5 Be7 9. d3 O-O 10. Nd2 Nd7 11. Ndf3 Ndxe5 12. Nxe5 Nxe5 13. fxe5 Bg5 14. Rf3 d4 15. exd4 Bxf3 16. Bxf3 Be3  17. Kh1 Bxd4 18. Bxd4 Qxd4 19. Bxa8 Rxa8 20. a4 Rd8 21. a5 b5 22. a6 Qxe5 23. Ra5 b4 24. Qg1 Rd5 25. Rb5 h5 26. Rb7 Qe2 27. h3 Rf5 28. Kh2 h4 29. Rxa7 Rf1 30. Qxf1 Qxf1 31. Rb7 Qa1 32. a7 Kh7 33. Rxf7 Kg6 34. Rc7 Qa2 35. Kh1 Kf6 36. Kh2 g5 37. Kh1 Ke5 38. Rxc5  Kf4 39. Kh2 Qxa7 40. Rc4  Kf5 41. Kh1 Qe3 42. Kh2 Qc1 43. Rc8 Kf4 44. Rc6 e5 45. Rc5 Qa1 46. Rc8 Ke3 47. Rc7 Qd4 48. Rc4 Qd6 49. Kg1 Ke2 50. Re4  Kd2 51. Rc4 Qb6  52. Kf1 Qf6  53. Kg1 Qf8 54. Kh2 Ke1 55. Re4  Kf1 56. d4 Qf2 57. dxe5 Qg1X
  
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Stonewall - model game for Black wanted
10/11/03 at 17:36:41
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Hello,

I just ran into the Stonewall attack as Black in this move-order : 1.e3 d5 2.f4 g6. I'm looking for a model game as black involving the d5-g6 setup. Can any experienced player help me locate such a game, as there is no Stonewall game in the Flank openings section  ???

Thanks for your help,
  
48 yo, 1920 elo
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