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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3!? (Read 11862 times)
Glenn Snow
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3!?
Reply #15 - 04/09/08 at 01:23:38
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Although I don't think it's anything special, a friend of mine who at least at one time specialised in this 3.Nc3 stuff believed White should just play 5.Bc4 (after 3...g6 4.h4 h5) followed by Ng5, d3, and I think 0-0.  No advantage but possibly a dynamically equal position.  (I think there was another thread on this because I think I've written about that plan before.)
  
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OstapBender
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3!?
Reply #14 - 03/12/08 at 14:50:11
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AmateurDragoneer wrote on 11/21/03 at 00:04:36:
Do you have any more info/games/analysis on 3. Nc3 g6 4. h4?

Mike Goeller posted an annotated game last year on this line where Black continued with 4...Nf6:

http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/kenilworthian/2007/12/sicilicide-or-suicide-t...

Goeller notes (as Topnotch did earlier in this thread) that 4...h5 should be Black's best reply (and has been preferred by most GMs).
  

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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3!?
Reply #13 - 03/12/08 at 09:18:12
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Yes, I believe thats one reason Tiviakov switched to the accelerated move-order. But the Dragon with Bc4 has problems for Black also, the Maroczy is the least of Blacks worries.
  
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3!?
Reply #12 - 03/11/08 at 20:47:47
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In that case the Acc. Dragon is more precise than the Dragon Proper, as 2...Nc6/4...g6 avoids the 9.0-0-0 variation. Controversial indeed.
  

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Keano
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3!?
Reply #11 - 03/11/08 at 12:01:07
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AmateurDragoneer wrote on 11/12/03 at 19:25:18:
I have started playing this line as White and using it primarily to avoid the Sveshnikov. I am fine with 3...e5, e6, d6, and Nf6 but am curious what to do against 3...g6. 4. d4 leads to an accelerated dragon that should be dead equal since White can't play the Maroczy bind and I have toyed with the idea of 4. Bc4 followed by d3 and O-O. Does anyone have any suggestions as far as what to play from here to stay out of the open sicilian, or should I just be content w/ 4. d4?

Thanks


4.d4! must be correct. This is not dead equal, in fact most of the top players in the world now after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 g6 play 5.Nc3! The Dragon is where the real problems lie for Black - the once dreaded Maroczy 5.c4?! is not what it once was and Black is equalizing comfortably there. I know this is controversial, but I´ll stick by it!
  
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3!?
Reply #10 - 03/11/08 at 06:10:18
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lol, I just tried to reply to Amateurdragoneer's 4 year old question (why not just play the Rossolimo?) But he probably doesn't like it anyway as it would be the obvious thing to look at first I suppose.
  
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3!?
Reply #9 - 03/07/08 at 06:57:02
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Mamedyarov tried to make something out of 4.g3 against Carlsen in Wijk Aan Zee 2008, but it backfired badly and he lost the game.
  

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Glenn Snow
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3!?
Reply #8 - 01/31/04 at 21:04:20
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Thanks for the correction regarding the 3.Nc3 tape.  I tried to find something to for White to work with after 3...g6!, but found myself in complete agreement that it renders 3.Nc3 theoretically harmless.  Why don't we see more of this?
  
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3!?
Reply #7 - 01/31/04 at 09:54:51
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Hello folks  Grin

I would like to correct a point made in Glenn Snow's post regarding 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 g6 4.h4, by stating that it was Nigel Davies and not Andrew Martin that narrated this tape. The title of the tape was Sicilicide and was produced by Foxy Openings, this tape provides a full repertoire against the sicilian based on the move order 1.e4, Nf3 and Nc3.

The tape mentioned above is quite good and instructive, however the line offered against the Accelerated Dragon, namely 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 g6 4.h4 is in my opinion highly dubious after the obvious and best response 4..h5! and I find it suspicious that Davies does not analyse this possibility on his tape.

The Rossolimo option 1. e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Bb5 while playable for white is not an optimal move order here, and although Morozovich made this line famous with a nice win vs Yakovich I think it was, the line has long since been neutralised.

My conclusion is that 1. e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 g6! renders this move order unattractive for white players looking for an Anti-Sicilian weapon, unless of course they are willing to re-enter the mainlines starting with 4.d4, but in so doing they have eschewed white's most dangerous option against the Accelerated Dragon, that being the Maroczy Bind.

The search for an all purpose Sicilian killa continues  Cheesy

Top  Grin  
« Last Edit: 01/31/04 at 22:27:05 by TopNotch »  

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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3!?
Reply #6 - 01/11/04 at 09:04:57
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Is 3.Nc3 on the way to become the latest fashion against the Sicilian?

Noted to my surprise a few days ago that 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 de 5.Nxe5 had been played lately a few times by some strong players, most notably Anand, and with good results too...

This thread seems to show that 2...Nc6 3.Nc3 also gives white some promising ways of avoiding the theoretical main lines.
- Though I'm not sure how to deal with AmateurDragoneer's 3...a6!? 4.d4 cd 5.Nxd4 e5 looks nice for black, so should white prefer 4.g3 or 4.a4 or what?

But is there any way of getting something independent after 2...e6 3.Nc3 -? 3...d5?! should favour white since pawn-d5 is likely to turn out weak, but after 3...d6 or 3...Nc6 4.d4 seems necessary or?

  
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3!?
Reply #5 - 11/21/03 at 12:57:11
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3...e5 still lets White get an advantage (see NCO)

Instead, 3...Nf6! is a great try for Sveshnikov players. Now 4. d4 goes back to a Sveshnikov while 4. Bb5 g6 is fine for black (again, see NCO). If you play the Taimanov, then I think 3...e6 is the way to go with the worst case scenarion being 4. Be2 Nf6 5. O-O d6! (5...d5?! leads to an advantage for White after 5. exd5 Nxd5 6. d4 Nxc3 7. bxc3 with Bd3 to follow) 6. d4 cxd4 7. Nxd4 transposing to a classical scheveningen. For Kalashnikov players, I don't know, maybe 3...g6 going to an accelerated dragon or 3...a6.
  
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3!?
Reply #4 - 11/21/03 at 12:35:48
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Quote:
I have started playing this line as White and using it primarily to avoid the Sveshnikov. I am fine with 3...e5,


After 4.Bc4 d6, which line do you find the most common from White's point of view, the aggresive 5.Ng5!?, the positional 5.Nd2 or the regular 5.Nd5 ?

  
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3!?
Reply #3 - 11/21/03 at 00:04:36
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Do you have any more info/games/analysis on 3. Nc3 g6 4. h4?
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3!?
Reply #2 - 11/15/03 at 16:58:43
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I don't know if I'd call that line of the Accelerated dead equal.  There are lines that are quite lively.  Anyway, really just wanted to mention that Andrew Martin (I think) gives analysis with 3.Nc3 g6 4.h4 on his tape on 3.Nc3.
  
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3!?
Reply #1 - 11/13/03 at 03:27:02
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Well, there is always 4.Bb5, reaching a position from the 3.Bb5 line.  An advantage of playing this move order for White, is that Black is committed to the ...g6 line so you don't have to worry about the lines with ...e6.
On the other hand, if he plays like this, Black is probably a 'Dragoneer' in any case, and would probably have met 3.Bb5 with 3...g6 in any case.  From his point of view, therefore, he has gained from your being committed to Nc3, which makes ...Nd4 much more effective in a number of positions.
  

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