Looks like the players of the Black pieces both started out with dubious moves, but at least this is something to work with for people who include this for White in there repertoire.  Which means this isn't a quick fix for Gruenfeld players against this (1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4) system.  However it does deserve more attention as it is clearly important and still may be the best choice for Gruenfeld players who want to steer clear of the King's Indian and other openings.  Maybe we should have started a new post though, as this doesn't seem directly related to the original question?  Also, I think reproducing small parts of books represents more of an advertisement for the book than anything else.  Perhaps that should be the topic of more posts under the "General Chess" section.

Actually I noticed after I brought up the variation that Burgess writes, "The critical line runs 5.Nxe5 Nxe4 6.Nxe4 Bxe5 7.d4 Bg7 which looks quite satisfactory for Black, e.g. 8.Bg5 f6, and then 9.Bh4 0-0 (Motwani) is quite good for Black, who has several threats against White's uncoordinated pieces; 9.Bf4 0-0 and again Black can be quite happy: or 9.Be3 0-0 with ideas of pushing the f-pawn."  He also notes that no one has played 5.Nxe5 and that in practice the reply has alway been 5.d4.  The book's copyright is 1998 so perhaps there has been some practice with the variation since then.  Perhaps there are games out there that show White does have some advantage.  Any games in anyone's database?

My point in my above post is that after 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 e5 5.d4 (5.Nxe5 isn't supposed to be critical either.) exd4 6.Nxd4 6.Nxd4 0-0 7.Be2 Re8 8.f3, Black can play 8...c6! avoiding a normal King's Indian.  No Black hasn't gotten a Gruenfeld, but who cares if he has a simple way to a good game, which this seems to do unless White has improvements.  Burgess also mentions 5.g3 0-0 6.Bg2 but says White's setup is not very dangerous.

I count that as pretty much a King's Indian.  It certainly isn't a Grünfeld!

Why would anyone besides a professional want to bother learning all the theory in the Gruenfeld is my first thought whenever someone is thinking about playing this opening.  However, I know it has many "true believers'.  Perhaps you might also want to check out GM Davies video on the opening which I believe features some lines that are not well known.  That might get you up and running a lot faster and you could switch variations as time allows should you not be satified with his recommendation versus any particular system.

One of the major problems with playing the Grünfeld is that it is difficult to force it against 1.Nf3 and 1.c4 move orders, so you can't use it as an all-purpose defence when White doesn't play 1.e4.

For example, after 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3, White is 'threatening' to prevent the Grünfeld by playing 4.e4.  This is fine if you are happy with a King's Indian, but otherwise you either have to play 3...c5 and go for a Symmetrical English (this will often end up as a Maroczy Bind) or dive in with 3...d5, when White has the incredibly annoying 4.Qa4+!?

Hi everyone!
I was considering adding the grunfeld to my repertoire (that is, studying it more seriously than I have ever done ...) but two questions springed into my mind. That's why I am here, asking for help from Grunfeld Experts and Glenn if he's available!
Ok, here are my questions:
1. first, it is said that one problem with the grunfeld is that it contains lot of drawish lines.. I know playing black and trying to win is hard with any opening if the white player does'nt try to win, but in the Grunfeld it is supposed to be harder... I remember Peter Leko saying that one of the reason he was drawing so much of his games with black was that even against weaker player, he couldn't win some grunfeld endings (that's why he switched to the QID/Nimzo...). I guess the idea is that, in the grunfeld, even more than in other openings, the most drawish lines involves a lot of simplificcations which make it difficult to outplay your opponent after that....thus, my question, is, what do u guys think???? Have some of u already experienced these kind of problems???
2. My other questions concerns move-orders: what are the best things to do vs someone who (i), plays d4 but delay Nc3, (ii) starts Nf3, (iii) starts c4.
Well, sorry for such a long topic! Help appreciated!!!
Bye