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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 9. O-O-O d5 10. h4!? (Read 8141 times)
Scholar
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Re: 9. O-O-O d5 10. h4!?
Reply #19 - 03/25/06 at 19:23:35
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Thanks for the correction; I've fixed the original post.  I guess I'd agree that Black's position is a bit better, but after 17.Qh6, it doesn't look like enough to call it anything other than equality: 17...Qxg7 18.Qxg7 Kxg7 19.Rxd4 and White will just play c3 at some point and hold his slightly weaker structure.
  
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Re: 9. O-O-O d5 10. h4!?
Reply #18 - 03/25/06 at 11:38:50
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[quote author=Scholar link=1073434213/15#17 date=1143257090] Indeed, 10...dxe4 11.h5 Nxd4 12.Bxd4 e5 13.h6 exd4 14.hxg7 Re8 15.Nxe4 Nxe4 16.fxe4 Qh6 seems like Black's surest route to equality.
quote]

You meant 16...Qf6 of course, but your conclusion is essentially correct, except that black is slightly better than equal.
  
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Scholar
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Re: 9. O-O-O d5 10. h4!?
Reply #17 - 03/25/06 at 03:24:50
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Well, I now think that after 10...dxe4 11.h5 Nxh5 12.g4 White is better against all reasonable moves for Black -- which is not to say that there aren't some unreasonable moves that might work, but in general White gets a strong initiative, and so 11...Nxd4 would be my preference.  Indeed, 10...dxe4 11.h5 Nxd4 12.Bxd4 e5 13.h6 exd4 14.hxg7 Re8 15.Nxe4 Nxe4 16.fxe4 Qf6 seems like Black's surest route to equality.

10...Nxd4 seems interesting, and in addition to the queen sacrifice, Black has some unusual tries, for example after 11.e5 Ng4!? seems strong, since 12.Bxd4 can be met with Bh6 13.f4 f6 and Black seems no worse, although there is a lot more to investigate.
« Last Edit: 03/25/06 at 19:10:53 by Scholar »  
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Re: 9. O-O-O d5 10. h4!?
Reply #16 - 03/24/06 at 03:05:34
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AmateurDragoneer wrote on 01/12/04 at 19:02:23:
Tiviakov gives 12...Nxh5 13. Qe3 e5 (13...Bxd4 14. Rxd4 with the idea of Nxe4 and g4 gives White the initiative and a clear advantage according to Tiv.) 14. Bc5 Qa5 15. Bxf8 Kxf8 16. Rd5 Qc7 17. Rc5 Qe7 18. Nd5 Qd6 19. fxe4 was, according to Tiv., clearly better for White in Akopian-Movsesian, SSSR 1985. 13...exd4 14. hxg7 Re8 is actually Tiviakov's suggested main line, though I have yet to find any games with this variation. From here he gives 15. Nxe4 Nxe4 16. fxe4 Qf6 (the greedy and foolish 16...Rxe4?? is crushed by 17. Qh6 which is winning for white according to Tiv.) 17. Bc4 Qg7 


But after 17...Be6 instead, I don't see White's play for the win.  Also, I don't think that 17. Rh6? improves: 17...Bg4.
  

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Re: 9. O-O-O d5 10. h4!?
Reply #15 - 03/23/06 at 17:35:07
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Quote:
after 9.000 d5 10.h4 Nxd4 11.Bxd4 dxe4 12.fxe4 Be6 or Qa5 black seems to be ok.


Let me add some details to my post above; after 10...Nxd4 White would probably prefer 11.e5 and now Black must choose between the queen sac line after Nf5, or try to exploit the weakening of g3 with 11...Nh5.

11.Bxd4 doesn't seem critical for either player.
  
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Re: 9. O-O-O d5 10. h4!?
Reply #14 - 03/23/06 at 10:04:32
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after 9.000 d5 10.h4 Nxd4 11.Bxd4 dxe4 12.fxe4 Be6 or Qa5 black seems to be ok.
  
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Re: 9. O-O-O d5 10. h4!?
Reply #13 - 03/23/06 at 07:22:42
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I thought I'd revive this old thread because it contains some useful information on this line, and since I've recently met it a couple of times and have started to take a closer look.

I'll post some more when I have decided what line I like best among the Black's main alternatives but a quick summary of the alternatives I'm considering:

the queen sac line, 10...Nxd4 (similar to the 10.Kb1 lines) or playing

10...dxe4 11.h5

11...Nxd4 may be safest, with the line given above initially looking more solid than

11...Nxh5 12.g4 Bxd4 seems most enterprising (and it is what I played when I was surprised by this move OTB) but I agree that White seems to get an uncomfortable initiative in some lines and certainly the continuation I chose, 13.gxh5 Bxc3 might not be best in view of 14.Qxc3 Qa5 15.hxg6 Qxc3 16.gxh7+ Kh8 17.bxc3 exf3 18.Bh6 when Black will have to give up the exchange, though the position remains unclear.

So it's been a couple of years -- does 11...Nxh5 hold up, or are the alternatives listed above preferable for playing for unbalanced positions or safe equality (respectively)?
  
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Re: 9. O-O-O d5 10. h4!?
Reply #12 - 03/29/04 at 14:48:41
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I (finally) got to try this line out yesterday at the U.S. Amateur Team East Tournament. The result? I upset a player 494 points higher!! After 10. h4!? dxe4 11. h5 Nxh5? 12. g4 Ng3? 13. Qh2! Nxh1 14. Nxc6 Qe8 15. Nd5! (all from Tiviakov's monograph), I already had a winning position without even wasting 5 minutes off my clock!! My opponent, on the other hand, spent no less than a total of 57 minutes pondering her first 15 moves. The game continued 15...Kh8 16. Bb5 Qd7 17. Ndxe7 Bxb2+? 18. Kxb2 Qxd1 19. Bd4+ f6 20. Nxg6+ Kg7 21. Nxf8 Bf5 22. Qc7+! Kxf8 23. Qe7+ Kg8 24. Bc4+ Be6 25. Bxe6+ Kh8 26. Qxf6 mate.



What about 12. g4 Bxd4 13. gxh5 Be5!? This seems about equal. I mean white is not even fully developed and it looks like he will be down a pawn, I just can't believe Black doesn't have resources.
  
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Re: 9. O-O-O d5 10. h4!?
Reply #11 - 03/29/04 at 14:25:34
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Now on the line 9.0-0-0 d5 10. h4 dxe4 11. h5 Nxh5

12. Qf2 Qc7 13. Nxc6 Bxc3 14. g4 Qxc6 =+

  
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Re: 9. O-O-O d5 10. h4!?
Reply #10 - 03/02/04 at 19:02:44
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Thanks! The fact that Tamburro wasn't really that critical of the game makes me wonder whether the game was really just so incredibly good or whether he just doesn't know a lot about the dragon (i'm hoping it's the former Grin)
  
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Re: 9. O-O-O d5 10. h4!?
Reply #9 - 03/02/04 at 16:13:36
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That was your game in the star-ledger... congrats.
  
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Re: 9. O-O-O d5 10. h4!?
Reply #8 - 03/01/04 at 18:52:40
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If both 9.o-o-o d5 and Nxd4 are not satisfactory
for Black, maybe the route via the Accelerated
Dragon should be preferred?
  

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Re: 9. O-O-O d5 10. h4!?
Reply #7 - 02/28/04 at 13:31:42
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I'm interested in this 10.h4 line. I don't get too many dragons as white, so I need a line that's serviceable but without too much theory (don't we all...?)

I took a quick look at it on the board and the mainline looks OK. Personally I can't see too much wrong with Black's position in Akopian-Tiviakov, but maybe chances are equal? And black needs to be eiter well prepared, or to see a lot at the board to avoid disaster on the h-file.

Anyway my question is, does Black have to agree to enter this mainline, or can he just steer the game along more conventional lines with any of the standard move 10 responses? e.g. 10...e5 presumably forces 11.Nxc6 bxc6 and the pawn on h4 could be a liability - at any rate, if white can't make a quick h5 advance there's a chance of being just a move down on one of the other lines. Is 10.h4 a more useful move than 10.Qe1 or 10.Kb1, for example?

So theoreticians, what does white have against the following:
(a) 10...e5 11.Nxc6 bxc6
(b) 10...e6 (11.Qe1 transposes into the 10.Qe1 mainline of course, but if white wants that we're probably better off playing 10.Qe1)
(c) 10...Nxd4 (Does white just play 11.Bxd4, or is there a line with 11.e5!? analogous to the "trick" 10.Kb1 Nxd4 11.e5)?
  
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Re: 9. O-O-O d5 10. h4!?
Reply #6 - 02/15/04 at 23:31:23
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She was rated 1633 USCF and I am in the tournament at only a 1139 because they are using the ratings from the end of last year.
  
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Re: 9. O-O-O d5 10. h4!?
Reply #5 - 02/15/04 at 18:45:17
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Congratulations!! (Although as a Dragonplayer I feel for her..)
What was her rating(or elo)?
  
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