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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Keres System against English 2.g3 (Read 47718 times)
zoo
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #63 - 05/23/13 at 09:55:39
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@HoemberChess : after 1.c4 e5 2.g3, if you like to play ...c6 no matter what, you may as well play it at move 2. You just put a pawn in a place that could be used by a Knight, but if you don't care it's no big deal.

When Black plays 2...Nf6 his thoughts are more or less :
- playing 2...c6 induces 3.d4 when I must enter some super-drawish Keres with Bb4 & d6 (others are possible but this is the main intention). Depends on game/tournament situation. 
- against 2...Nf6 3.Nc3 I have the comfortable 3.Bb4 (however White often delays Nc3 in these lines).
- against 2...Nf6 3.Bg2 I can either play Keres with 3...c6, or the more ambitious 3...d5 leading to the 4Knights after 4.cd Nd5 5.Nc3 Nb6. an attractive option against Marin worshippers.

« Last Edit: 05/23/13 at 11:34:47 by »  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #62 - 05/02/13 at 10:16:48
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I don't know, but I guess a point is that White normally doesn't want to hurry with Nc3. Maybe the insertion of ...Nf6 and Nc3 could benefit Black more?
  
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HoemberChess
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #61 - 05/02/13 at 08:21:10
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HoemberChess wrote on 04/28/13 at 07:48:53:
What is the point in Black delaying ..c6 in reply to an early g3?
...


I asked this because in his CB Trainer on 1.c4 e5, Bologan doesn't say a word on it.
Still, he gives lines where 3 ..c6 is the answer to the fianchetto lines with 3.Bg2.

But there must be a reason why most players answer 2.g3 with 2..Nf6, even if they intend to continue with ..c6 (and then ..d5, if possible).

As for me, in the position after 1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 _3.Nc3_ I would play 3..c6 anyway,
so I am curious what can happen to Black if he doesn't play hide and seek and just go 2..c6 (a move earlier).

( I know there are a lot of move-order subtleties even here, in the fianchetto, where White can deviate with early Nf3 / d4 / etc. But I don't yet have comprehension of them. I am a 1.d4-player but I like 1..e5 in reply to the English more than any other first move, so I really need the help. Smiley  )


  

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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HoemberChess
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #60 - 04/28/13 at 07:48:53
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What is the point in Black delaying ..c6 in reply to an early g3?
(Given that in the position after 1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Nc3 I like to play 3..c6, not 3..Bb4.)

So, what are the advantages/disadvantages of each?
a) 1.c4 e5 2.g3 c6 //immediately after g3
b) 1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 (3.Bg2 c6) //only after Bg2
  

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #59 - 03/08/07 at 02:24:41
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MNb wrote on 03/08/07 at 02:11:12:
I am not convinced yet after 18.Be3 Na4 19.Bd4 Rfd8 20.e3. Black certainly has the more active pieces (Nh3, Rh1), but is his initiative strong enough to obtain something concrete?
But I agree, that 10...d5 deserves to be tested.


See revisions to my post that strengthen White somewhat.  But in your line, my silicon likes simply 20...Nc5.  Also 20...Rc4.
  

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MNb
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #58 - 03/08/07 at 02:11:12
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I am not convinced yet after 18.Be3 Na4 19.Bd4 Rfd8 20.e3. Black certainly has the more active pieces (Nh3, Rh1), but is his initiative strong enough to obtain something concrete?
But I agree, that 10...d5 deserves to be tested.
  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #57 - 03/08/07 at 01:45:21
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MNb wrote on 03/06/07 at 20:44:12:
Maybe everybody is baffled by 10.0-0-0, as there is a bishop on c1 yet.  Wink
6.Nc3/9.Bf4 0-0 10.0-0-0 d5 11.cxd5 Nxd5 12.Nxd5 cxd5 13.Rxd5 (13.Bxd5 Nb4) Be6 14.Rd2 (iso 14.Rb5) Rac8+ 15.Kb1 Nc5 16.Nh3 and maybe Black's compensation is not entirely enough?


Well, it looks to me as if 16. Nh3 Bf5+  17. Ka1 Bf6 leaves Black with some comp.  Whether quite enough, I am not sure, but it looks pretty hopeful:

18. Be3 Na4.

18. Rhd1 Ne4  19. Bxe4 Bxe4 and I suspect that Black's activity and two bishops will be enough to hold the balance.

Critical is 18. f3 Rfd8  e.g.  19. e4 Rxd2  20. Bxd2 Na4  21. Kb1 Be6  and now:

(1) 22. b3 Rd8  23. Kc2 Rc8+  24. Kd1 Rd8  25. Ke2 Nc6+  26. Bxc6 Bxc6  27. Rd1 Rxd1  28. Kxd1 and now 28...Bxh3 appears to draw by virtue of opposite colored bishops.

(2) 22. Bc1 Rc6  23. Nf2 (23. Nf4 Bc4) 23...Rd6  24. Nd1 Bc4 =.

But instead of 21. Kb1, better is 21. exf5 Rc2 (I hoped this would equalize, but it doesn't) 22. Rc1 Rxd2  23. Rc8+ Bd8  24. Kb1 Kf8  25. b3 Rxg2 and Black is struggling a little.  Whether he can draw, I'm not sure.  Nor do I like Blacks alternatives to 20...Na4 very much.  So perhaps this deals with 10...d5.

It would be nice if a stronger player would supply his judgement here.
  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #56 - 03/07/07 at 13:05:07
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Klick wrote on 03/07/07 at 06:15:12:
My opponent "deviated" and played d5 so I will need to come back to this later on when time allows.


Wrong thread, right?
  

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Klick
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #55 - 03/07/07 at 06:15:12
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My opponent "deviated" and played d5 so I will need to come back to this later on when time allows.
  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #54 - 03/06/07 at 21:24:36
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MNb wrote on 03/06/07 at 20:44:12:
Maybe everybody is baffled by 10.0-0-0, as there is a bishop on c1 yet.  Wink
6.Nc3/9.Bf4 0-0 10.0-0-0 d5 11.cxd5 Nxd5 12.Nxd5 cxd5 13.Rxd5 (13.Bxd5 Nb4) Be6 14.Rd2 (iso 14.Rb5) Rac8+ 15.Kb1 Nc5 16.Nh3 and maybe Black's compensation is not entirely enough?


Good grief.  What I meant was 6.Nc3 Bc5 7.Qe5+ Qe7 8.Qxe7+ Bxe7 9.Bf4 0-0 10.0-0-0 and now 10...d5.  I'll look at 14. Rd2 next, thanks.
  

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MNb
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #53 - 03/06/07 at 20:44:12
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Maybe everybody is baffled by 10.0-0-0, as there is a bishop on c1 yet.  Wink
6.Nc3/9.Bf4 0-0 10.0-0-0 d5 11.cxd5 Nxd5 12.Nxd5 cxd5 13.Rxd5 (13.Bxd5 Nb4) Be6 14.Rd2 (iso 14.Rb5) Rac8+ 15.Kb1 Nc5 16.Nh3 and maybe Black's compensation is not entirely enough?
  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #52 - 03/06/07 at 02:28:18
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Markovich wrote on 03/03/07 at 20:33:11:
IMJohnCox wrote on 03/02/07 at 13:17:03:
Tony Kosten claims an advantage for White after 6 Nc3 Bc5 7 Qe5+ Qe7 8 Qxe7+ Bxe7 in the last post on page three, I think, Markovich? Based on Schwarz-Kosten Austria 2005.


Ah.

I was looking at that: 1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.d4 exd4 5.Qxd4 Na6 6.Nf3 Bc5 7.Qe5+ Qe7 8.Qxe7 Bxe7 9.Nc3 0-0  10. 0-0-0 and I wondered if now instead of 10...Rd8 as played, 10...d5! would have been any good.  Notwithstanding the absent queens, Black seems to get some pretty good compensation for his pawn.  E.g. 11. cxd5 Nxd5  12. Nxd5 (12. Bxd5 cxd5  13. Nxd5 Bc5) 12...cxd5  13. Rxd5 Be6  14. Rb5 Rac8+  15. Kb8 Nc5.


Well, I'm surprised that no one has reacted to this by now, since I think 10...d5! does improve significantly on Schwartz-Kosten and bears on the viability of 5...Na6.
  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #51 - 03/03/07 at 20:33:11
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IMJohnCox wrote on 03/02/07 at 13:17:03:
Tony Kosten claims an advantage for White after 6 Nc3 Bc5 7 Qe5+ Qe7 8 Qxe7+ Bxe7 in the last post on page three, I think, Markovich? Based on Schwarz-Kosten Austria 2005.


Ah.

I was looking at that: 1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.d4 exd4 5.Qxd4 Na6 6.Nf3 Bc5 7.Qe5+ Qe7 8.Qxe7 Bxe7 9.Nc3 0-0  10. 0-0-0 and I wondered if now instead of 10...Rd8 as played, 10...d5! would have been any good.  Notwithstanding the absent queens, Black seems to get some pretty good compensation for his pawn.  E.g. 11. cxd5 Nxd5  12. Nxd5 (12. Bxd5 cxd5  13. Nxd5 Bc5) 12...cxd5  13. Rxd5 Be6  14. Rb5 Rac8+  15. Kb8 Nc5.
  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #50 - 03/02/07 at 13:17:03
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Tony Kosten claims an advantage for White after 6 Nc3 Bc5 7 Qe5+ Qe7 8 Qxe7+ Bxe7 in the last post on page three, I think, Markovich? Based on Schwarz-Kosten Austria 2005.
  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #49 - 03/02/07 at 11:49:27
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Quote:
Quote:
I think you mean one of the first post's of this thread. Personally I don't think white has much chance for advantage after, 4.d4, and should try one of the 4Nf3 e4 ones...


That may be but Black doesn't appear to be able to equalize with 4.d4 exd4 (4...Bb4+ is solid) 5.Qxd4 Na6 (probably the old move 5...d5 is best).  For the reason why just look at the previous posts which shows White has at least 2 effective answers.


Pehaps you would summarize the arguments for White's advantage, since I read this material and drew the opposite conclusion.
  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #48 - 03/02/07 at 00:48:37
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Thanks for pointing that out MarinFan, I thought it was another thread in question..

I don't like 1.c4 e5 2. g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.Nf3 e4 5.Nd5 d5 6.cxd Qxd all that much for white, so I think I will try 4.d4.  It will be interesting.
  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #47 - 03/01/07 at 20:17:37
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I think you mean one of the first post's of this thread. Personally I don't think white has much chance for advantage after, 4.d4, and should try one of the 4Nf3 e4 ones...


That may be but Black doesn't appear to be able to equalize with 4.d4 exd4 (4...Bb4+ is solid) 5.Qxd4 Na6 (probably the old move 5...d5 is best).  For the reason why just look at the previous posts which shows White has at least 2 effective answers.
  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #46 - 03/01/07 at 15:34:50
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Hello,

I think you mean one of the first post's of this thread. Personally I don't think white has much chance for advantage after, 4.d4, and should try one of the 4Nf3 e4 ones...

Bye John S
  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #45 - 03/01/07 at 11:46:50
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Incindentally, Kosten has some important material on this variation.  I had brought up the topic of 1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.d4 exd4 5.Qxd4 Na6, before I became a subscriber to Chesspublishing.com.  I think in an early post I had given, 6.Nf3 Bc5 7.Qe5+ (Kosten writes that this is the only try for advantage instead of 7.Qd1 which gives Black more options, but see his annotations.)


Anyone know where I can find this post?
  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #44 - 06/05/06 at 21:04:48
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Quote:
"1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.d4 exd4 5.Qxd4 Na6 6.Nf3 Bc5 7.Qe5+ Qe7 8.Qxe7 Bxe7 9.Nc3 Nb4 10.Nd4!?", Frendo.


Quote:
"Yes, I think you're right, 9 Nc3 and 10 Nd4! offers a small edge, and is better than my choice. Incidentally, I think that 6 Nc3 is better still, see my game against Schwarz from late last year, where I was suffering as Black!", Tony Kosten.


Schwarz - Kosten
6.Nc3 Bc5 7.Qe5+ Qe7 8.Qxe7+ Bxe7 9.Bf4 0-0 10.0-0-0 Rd8 11.Bd6 Bxd6 12.Rxd6 Ng4 13.Nh3 Nc7 14.b3 Ne8 15.Rd2 d6 16.e4 f6 17.Nf4 Ne5 18.h3 Kf8 19.Nfe2 Rb8 20.f4 Nf7 21.Nd4 a6 22.Rhd1 Bd7 23.Nc2.
1/2-1/2, Austria, AUT-chT 2005.
  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #43 - 07/01/04 at 16:58:44
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11.Qh4 looks interesting to me to.  I wonder if Black can get away with playing 11...Be7!? possibly with the idea of following up with ...h6.  Of course the postion could repeat if White decides to play 12.Qd4.  Possibly Black could keep the ...Be7 idea in reserve.
  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #42 - 07/01/04 at 16:46:18
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I just played my first game in this variation (on-line blitz game) inspired by this thread. My opponent played 11. Qh4 which looks interesting to me.

1. c4 e5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 c6 4. d4 exd4 5. Qxd4 Na6 6. Nf3 Bc5 7. Qe5+ Be7 8. O-O O-O 9. Nc3 Re8 10. Qd4 Bc5 11. Qh4!?

I can't find any games with this move but it looks very logical to me. What do you think? Is there something that makes Qd1 a clearly better move?

I chose to continue 11...h6 which I think is ok, but after 12. a3 I played 12...d6 which is probably a mistake. Maybe I should have played 12...d5 at once? After 13. cxd5 Nxd5 14. Qxd8 Rxd8, the position looks equal.
« Last Edit: 07/02/04 at 03:31:42 by Lobachevsky »  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #41 - 06/27/04 at 18:42:36
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In the line I gave with 13.Be3 I suppose Black might try 13...Bxc3+.  I assumed before that the 2-Bishops, space, open lines, and development advantage would more than offset the bad pawn structure.  Fritz thinks that 13...Bxc3+ is worse than 13...Bxe3.  I agree with your statement that both lines (13.Be3 and 13.Ne2) seem to leave only White with winning chances (at least with strong players, which pretty much excludes me).
  
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Billy_Cember
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #40 - 06/27/04 at 18:30:35
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This looks good also. Like the other line, it is White who has all of the winning chances.
  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #39 - 06/27/04 at 15:16:35
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You're absolutely right.  Not sure how I missed that one.  Oh well.  Besides your 13.Ne2 Bb6 (maybe 14.b4!? next) there is also 13.Be3!?, which might preserve an edge after 13...Bxe3 14.fxe3, with ideas like b4-b5 and Kd2.
  
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Billy_Cember
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #38 - 06/27/04 at 14:23:17
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This looks like the best move in the position.  Smiley

However, I think that after 10. Nd4 Bc5 11. a3 Black should play Nd3!? instead of Bxd4, when after 12. exd3 Bxd4 13. Ne2 Bb6, Whites advantage, while it is indisputable, is much smaller than in the line you gave.
  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #37 - 06/25/04 at 23:22:19
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I thought I'd give one more shot at trying to find something for White.  What do you think about:

1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.d4 exd4 5.Qxd4 Na6 6.Nf3 Bc5 7.Qe5+ Qe7 8.Qxe7 Bxe7 (8...Kxd7? 9.a3) 9.Nc3 Nb4, (Kosten has given 9...d5 10.cxd5 Nb4 11.dxc6!, a strong move that strong players have missed, 11...Nc2+ 12.Kf1 Nxa1 13.Nd4 Be6 14.cxb7 Rb8 15.Bf4) and now the move I'd like to look at is 10.Nd4!?, with the following ideas, 10...Bc5 (10...d5 11.a3; 10...c5 11.Ndb5 Nc2+ 12.Kd2 Nxa1 13.Nc7+ Kd8 14.Nxa8 ) 11.a3 Bxd4 12.axb4 Ke7 (12...d6 13.b5 Bd7 14.0-0 Ke7 15.Rd1) 13.b5 Rd8 14.0-0 d5 15.cxd5 cxd5 16.Rd1 Bxc3 17.bxc3.

Let me know what you think but please be gentle.  I threw this together while waiting for my girlfriend to get back from the grocery store.   Wink
  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #36 - 06/25/04 at 20:18:11
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I'm afraid I think you're being a bit optimistic that 5...Kta6 isn't well-known, Glenn, at any rate over here. Apart from Kosten-Collins, another 4NCL game Taylor-Palliser (and maybe even also the still duller Cox-Collinson) helped spread the word, and there was also an article in an NiC Yearbook. Depends on the level of course, but I'd say most 2200+ players over here for whom it matters know of this move, and if anyone of them know any useful tries for White, they're not telling!
  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #35 - 06/21/04 at 18:02:18
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I would say 2.g3 is still a good practical weapon.  I'm still not sure if Black's best responses are widely known.  Especially at club level.  The same could be said for Tony's repertoire against the symmetrical with 2.g3.
  
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Billy_Cember
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #34 - 06/21/04 at 15:11:17
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Now looking again at my e3 idea, I think you are definately right that White doesn't get any advantage (and might have a disadvantage). Loking over Tony's analysis, I think White should refrain from the 2. g3 move order.
  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #33 - 06/20/04 at 20:33:29
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I'm not sure that after 1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.e3, planning Ne2 and d4, is really challenging to Black since surely he would reply 4...d5.  As Tony recently pointed out, the position is a reversed Alapin Silician with White committed to a fianchetto variation.  With that in mind, White could also try 4.Nf3 e4 5.Nd4 since Black has been using this a tempo down with decent results the last few years.  Or perhaps even 4.d3 d5 5.Nf3 but this especially seems like one of those variations that are best suited for counter attack than trying to get an advantage with White (this may hold true of 4.Nf3 as well).  It just may be that if Black is theoretically well prepared White must use the 2.Nc3 move order if he hopes to try for an edge.
  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #32 - 06/20/04 at 19:32:35
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Maybe, since looking at the analysis, it looks like Black definately has equality, maybe, instead of the immediate 4.d4, White could play more slowly with e3, Ne2, and eventually d4, capturing on d4 with the knight instead of the queen.
  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #31 - 06/20/04 at 10:40:31
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Incindentally, Kosten has some important material on this variation.  I had brought up the topic of 1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.d4 exd4 5.Qxd4 Na6, before I became a subscriber to Chesspublishing.com.  I think in an early post I had given, 6.Nf3 Bc5 7.Qe5+ (Kosten writes that this is the only try for advantage instead of 7.Qd1 which gives Black more options, but see his annotations.) 7...Qe7?.  As it turns out 7...Qe7 is probably the better move after which White doesn't have any advantage at all according to Tony's analysis.  If anybody has any suggestions which alter this assessment please let me know.  Also, is there any benifit to playing a different sixth move?  (I kinda doubted it, but thought I'd ask.)
  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #30 - 02/06/04 at 12:09:26
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Yeah. It is surprising that 5 ... Na6 isn't played more. Maybe, instead of 9. 0-0, white should play 9. a3 with a future b4 allowing the bishop to b2 and with the gaining of space on the queenside.
  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #29 - 02/05/04 at 19:00:19
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I think this line of analysis shows that 10.Na4 is in fact risky and that White should prefer 10.b3.  Certainly if White is the one who seems to be looking for equality.  Considering that Black's position can still be considered playable after that (10.b3), then I'm surprised we haven't seen more of 5...Na6!?
  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #28 - 02/05/04 at 17:00:50
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Yeah, your right, this gains a big advantage. Instead of 18 e3 (which is a big mistake), white should play 18. Be3 with equality
  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #27 - 02/05/04 at 00:22:25
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I was careless again.  But why does black have to give up a pawn?  Why not 18...a4?  Doesn't this preserve black's positional advantages?  Maybe black doesn't have an immediate tactical refutation (which wasn't my intended meaning of "cashing in," though I got a little carried away), but I think he can still exploit white's weaknesses through positional play.  I don't think white can count on utilizing the bishop pair advantage, when the c1 bishop is so passive.  (For example, black could play 18...Nd3 immediately, but I think black can play for more than equality.)  18...a4 does concede the b4 square, but I still think black has a grip.

For example, after
18.e3 a4 19.Qb4 (with idea of protecting the knight to play e4) 19...b5 20.f3 Nd6 21.e4, I think 21...Ncxe4 is strong.  Also I think 21.Rd1 can well met by 21...Nb3, with the idea 22.e4 Nxe4.  If this works, I think black is doing quite well.
  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #26 - 02/04/04 at 20:06:33
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After 18. e3, white's position is definately not atrocious and black has no way of "cashing in" on it. Even though white has his weaknesses, black has two equally important weaknesses. Firstly, White has an extra pawn which after White soaks up the pressure becomes a major advantage in the endgame. Also, White has the bishop pair which become strong after White soaks up the pressure. Even though Black is much more active, he has no way to cash in on the win because White has enough recourses to defen and then even counter attack.

As for 21 ... b6, its a mistake. This is because after

1. c4 e5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 c6 4. d4 exd4 5. Qxd4
Na6 6. Nf3 Bc5 7. Qd1 O-O 8. Nc3 Re8 9. O-O d6 10. Na4 Bf5 11. a3 d5 12. Qb3 Rb8 13. Nxc5  Nxc5 14. Qb4 Nfe4 15. Nd4 a5 16. Qe1 Bg6 17. cxd5 Qxd5 18. e3 Nb3 19. Nxb3 Qxb3 20. Qxa5 Rbd8 21. f3 b6
Then
22. Qb4! Nc5 (22... Qxb4 activates White's rook and kills most of Black's pressure, White has an advantage) 23. e4 f5 24. Qxb3+ Nxb3 25. Bg5 White is winning.
White's bishops are much better than Black's bishop and knight 25 ... Rd6 26. Rad1
Rde6 (26... Red8 27. Rxd6 Rxd6 White is way ahead) 27. Bh3 White is winning
  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #25 - 02/04/04 at 19:18:34
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In your analysis, 21...b6 improves on 21...Ra8:

1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.d4 exd4 5.Qxd4 Na6 6.Nf3 Bc5 7.Qd1 0-0 8.Nc3 Re8 9.0-0 d6 10.Na4 Bf5 11.a3 d5 12.Qb3 Rb8 13.Nxc5 Nxc5 14.Qb4 Nfe4 15.Nd4 a5 16.Qe1 Bg6 17.cxd5 Qxd5 18.e3 (With white's weaknesses on b3 and d3, I consider white's position to be atrocious.  Now I think it is simply a matter of how black "cashes in.") 18...Nb3 19.Nxb3 Qxb3 20.Qxa5 Rbd8 21.f3 (looks grim to me.) 21...b6 (improves on 21...Ra8.  The rook is already on a great square!) 22.Qe1 [22.Qa7? Nc5 White's really bad here.  23...Rd7 is a major threat.] 22...Nc5 23.Qc3 Qxc3?! This is not really that great a move, but this shows black can immediately gain the pawn back with a favorable endgame. [23...Qa4! significantly improves: 24.Qb4 Qc2 (gaining a move) 25.Qc2 Nb3-+] 24.bxc3 Nb3 25.Rb1 Nxc1 26.Rbxc1 Rxe3

  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #24 - 02/03/04 at 21:15:55
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Yeah your right. I think that this means that 15. cxd5 is a mistake. I think that instead, that White should play 15. Nd4. I think that this gives equality. For example,


1. c4 e5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 c6 4. d4 exd4 5. Qxd4
Na6 6. Nf3 Bc5 7. Qd1 O-O 8. Nc3 Re8 9. O-O d6 10. Na4 Bf5 11. a3 d5 12. Qb3 13. Nxc5  13... Nxc5 14. Qb4 Nfe4

15. Nd4 a5 16. Qe1 Bg6

(16... Bg4 17. cxd5 Qxd5 18. Be3 White is winning)

17. cxd5 Qxd5 18. e3 Nb3 19. Nxb3 Qxb3 20. Qxa5
20... Rbd8 21. f3 Ra8 22. Qe1 Nc5 23. e4 Nd3 24. Qe2 Rad8 25. Rd1 c5 26. a4 equal  White will activate his rook via the 3rd rank

  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #23 - 01/29/04 at 22:32:45
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What about 15...a5?  After

1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.d4 exd4 5.Qxd4 Na6 6.Nf3 Bc5 7.Qd1 0-0 8.Nc3 Re8 9.0-0 d6 10.Na4 Bf5 11.a3 d5 12.Qb3 Rb8 13.Nxc5 Nxc5 14.Qb4 Nfe4 15.cxd5 a5 16.Qc4 [16.Qd4 Nb3; 16.Qe1 Nb3] 16...cxd5 17.Qc2 [17.Qb5 Bd7; 17.Qd4 Nb3] 17...Rc8 I like black.

White's queen seems to be in an awkward positon.
  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #22 - 01/29/04 at 17:06:59
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14 ... Nfe4 is a move I didn't even think of. Actually, I think it is the best move in the position. After analysis, it looks like Black gains equality, so thus, 12 ... Rb8 isn't a mistake.

After  1. c4 e5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 c6 4. d4 exd4 5. Qxd4
Na6 6. Nf3 Bc5 7. Qd1 O-O 8. Nc3 Re8 9. O-O d6 10. Na4 Bf5 11. a3 d5 12. Qb3 Rb8 13. Nxc5 Nxc5 14. Qb4 Nfe4


15. cxd5 This allows White's queen to move to c4 or d4 in case of a5. Maybe this isn't the best move though; its not what Fritz 8 recommends. Fritz is wrong sometimes though. 15 ... Qxd5 16. Bf4 Rbd8 17. Nh4 Bc8

(17... Be6?!  18. Be3 b6 (18... Bc8 19. Rac1 Na6 20. Qa4 Qe5 21. Rfd1 White is winning, he will soon take a material advantage by capturing one of
Black's queenside pawns.) 19. Rac1 White will continue to build his pressure. This gives White an advantage)

18. f3 Nd2 19. e4 Qd4+ 20. Qxd4 Rxd4 21. Rad1 Ndb3 22. Rxd4 Nxd4 23. Be3 equal

  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #21 - 01/27/04 at 02:21:31
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I don't have time at the moment to give a detailed reply, but after 14.Qb4 Nfe4 is the first move that "pops out at me."  I think this worth a look.  One immediate threat is ...a5 followed by ...Nb3.  At the moment, the queen's position seems awkward to me.  I think this possibly illustrates what seems to me to be one of the key ideas of this system for black:  if white goes after bishop pair with Na4, then black can seek compensation through the activity of the knights.
  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #20 - 01/26/04 at 20:12:04
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Now, after further analysis, it looks like 12. Rb8 doesn't give full equality


After  1. c4 e5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 c6 4. d4 exd4 5. Qxd4
Na6 6. Nf3 Bc5 7. Qd1 O-O 8. Nc3 Re8 9. O-O d6 10. Na4 Bf5 11. a3 d5 12. Qb3 Rb8
Instead of what I suggested earlier, I think White should play
13. Nxc5 Nxc5 14. Qb4   

A.  14... Ne6 15. cxd5 Nxd5 16. Qa4 Qc7 17. Nh4 b5 18. Qd1 Ne7 19. Nxf5 Nxf5 20. b4
Rbd8 White has the better chances. The game isn't close to over though.

B.  14... b6 15. Nd4 Qd7 16. Nxf5 Qxf5 17. cxd5 Nxd5
18. Qc4 White is winning; his bishops are far superior to Black's knights


  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #19 - 01/25/04 at 23:11:15
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I definitely like 19...Rexd5 20.Bb6 R5d7 21.Rad1! for white! Smiley  The more I look at 12...dxc4, the less I like it for black.  

Looking back at move 12 though, it seems like 12...Rb8 is fully satisfactory.  I notice in a line you gave earlier, 13.cxd5 Nxd5 14.Nh4 you only considered 14...Bc8 and 14...Be6, but one of the first moves (along with 14...Be6) that comes to my mind is 14...Be4, after which it seems like black has a decent game.  But after 14...Be6 15.Rd1 (the suggested move), the simple 15...Qe7 looks awkward for white to me.  
  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #18 - 01/22/04 at 21:09:06
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It looks like to me, 15...Rd8 is a mistake. 

After
1. c4 e5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 c6 4. d4 exd4 5. Qxd4
Na6 6. Nf3 Bc5 7. Qd1 O-O 8. Nc3 Re8 9. O-O d6 10. Na4 Bf5 11. a3 d5 12. Qb3 dxc4 13. Qxb7 Qa5 14. Ne5 Rxe5 15. Nxc5 Rd8 16. Nxa6 Bc8 17. Qxa7 Bxa6

(17... Qxa6 18. Qxa6 Bxa6 White has the bishop pair and an extra pawn with a better pawn
structure. Both of Black's c pawns are weak and will be needing defence, condemning Black to passivity)

18. Be3 Rd7

(18... Nd5 (as suggested) loses to  19. Bxd5

19 ... Rexd5 20. Bb6 White wins

19... cxd5 20. Bb6 White wins

19... Qxd5 20. Qxa6 White wins)

19. Qa8+ Re8 20. Qxc6  Black does not have
sufficient compensation for his 2 pawns. Once white gets his rooks out, Black
will be down 2 pawns and a bishop and knight for a much more active bishop pair.

I guess in retrospect, maybe black might to play instead of 12 ... dxc4, a queen or rook move to the 7th rank protecting the pawn; further investigation is required though.

  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #17 - 01/20/04 at 18:15:58
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Here's my analysis of 15...Rd8:

1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.d4 exd4 5.Qxd4 Na6 6.Nf3 Bc5 7.Qd1 0-0 8.Nc3 Re8 9.0-0 d6 10.Na4 Bf5 11.a3 d5 12.Qb3 dxc4 13.Qxb7 Qa5 14.Ne5 Rxe5 15.Nxc5 Rd8 16.Nxa6 [16.Qxa6 Qxc5 17.Be3 (17.Qxc6 Qxc6 18.Bxc6 Rxe2 19.Bf3 Re5 with the idea 20.Bf4 Rb5 21.Be2 Bd3 22.Bxd3 cxd3µ; 17.Bf3 Bh3 18.Re1 Ng4 19.Bxg4 Bxg4 20.Be3 Rxe3 21.fxe3 Qxe3+ 22.Kg2 Bf5-+) 17...Rxe3 18.fxe3 Ng4 19.Qxc6 (19.Rxf5 Qxf5 20.Rf1 Qc5) 19...Qxe3+ 20.Kh1 Nf2+ 21.Rxf2 Qxf2 22.Qxc4 (22.Rf1 Qxe2) 22...Be6 23.Qb5 Qd4µ Black is very active.] 16...Bc8 17.Qxa7 [17.Qb4 Qxa6; 17.Qxc6 Bxa6 compensation] 17...Bxa6 18.Be3 [18.Bxc6 Rxe2 19.Bf3 Re6 20.Be3 Rd7 21.Qa8+ (21.Qb8+ Re8 22.Qb4 Qf5 23.Bg2 Nd5 24.Bxd5 Qxd5µ excellent compensation for black) 21...Re8 22.Qc6 Rc8-+] 18...Nd5 19.Qc5 Qxc5 [19...Qc7!?] 20.Bxc5 Rxe2³ 21.Bd4 Nf4!? 22.Bc3 Nd3 23.Rab1 [23.Bxc6 Rb8] 23...Bb5

This is line seems quite messy.  I tried to present my analysis as compactly as possible, and I emphasized the continuations that seemed most critical to me.  So far, in all the lines I have analysed, black seems at least slightly better to me.  There are probably some faults, since my time is limited, but hopefully this conveys ideas for black to fight for the advantage.

Maybe 12...dxc4 isn't the best move, since it's not as simple as I initially thought (unless I'm missing something).  Anyway, the tactics are engrossing.  I am tempted to look back at move 12, but I think I should stop for now.
  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #16 - 01/20/04 at 14:08:58
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Actually Cekro-Van Mechelen is the only game I have found with the natural 10.b3.  I think is mainly because there are not many games in the 5...Na6 line.  Any thoughts on this game?  It looks to me that white has the right idea, though I haven't checked it carefully.  New lines like this can sometimes take a little bit of work.

10.Na4 looks wrong to me also.  It looks like a misguided attempt to gain the bishop pair.  However, I think black has some interesting tactical resources here that might be worth a taking a look at from the black perspective.  If a 2440 plays a move like 10.Na4, then that might indicate the justification of black's development isn't entirely trivial.  Smiley  (Half-joking.  Actually I don't like {read "detest"} the use of rating comparisons in assessments, though sometimes there is some truth to it.)
  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #15 - 01/18/04 at 20:46:27
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Well to be honest I 10.Na4 just looked wrong to me so I haven't really been following the analysis given there. 10.b3 seems to give White the kind of slight edge (with reasonable chances of increasing it) that he looks for in this kind of opening.  I'd be kinda of surprised if there weren't more games on 10.b3 to shed some more light on this.
« Last Edit: 01/19/04 at 03:11:15 by alumbrado »  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #14 - 01/18/04 at 20:01:39
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Yes, that is a flaw in my analysis!  An embarassing mistake with the placement of the rooks!  Thanks for pointing that out.

I believe though that I have a strong improvement in the counterintuitive 15...Rd8(!).  (The explanation point probably mainly from enthusiasm!  Smiley)  

This line is getting quite complicated, and is getting rather tedious to type by hand.  I think I might use chessbase light to help organize my thoughts and for ease in "typing" in the details.

To anyone else who's interested, I don't think this is of much theoretical importance, but the tactics are fascinating!  Perhaps a good exercise for tactical visualization, since there are several complicated capture sequences.  Hopefully, I'll have my analysis up soon.  (Well, hopefully it's correct.)

I wonder what Glenn thinks of this...
This is perhaps a bit of diversion from the original post.
« Last Edit: 01/19/04 at 03:10:53 by alumbrado »  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #13 - 01/18/04 at 12:09:50
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Instead of 17. Qxc6 (after 1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.d4 exd4 5.Qxd4 Na6 6.Nf3 Bc5 7.Qd1 0-0 8.Nc3 Re8 9.0-0 d6 10.Na4 Bf5 11.a3 d5  12.Qb3 dxc4 13.Qxb7 a5
14.Ne5 Rxe5 15.Nxc5 Rb8 16.Qxa6 Qxc5), White should play 17.Bf4. This gains him an advantage


1. c4 e5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 c6 4. d4 exd4 5. Qxd4
Na6 6. Nf3 Bc5 7. Qd1 O-O 8. Nc3 Re8 9. O-O d6 10. Na4 Bf5 11. a3 d5 12. Qb3 dxc4 13. Qxb7 Qa5 14. Ne5 Rxe5 15. Nxc5 Rb8 16. Qxa6 Qxc5 17. Bf4! Rb6 18. Qxa7 Rxb2 (18... Rxe2 19. Be3 Rxe3 20. fxe3 Qxe3+ 21. Kh1 g6 with advantage to white) 19. Bxe5 Qxa7 20. Bxb2 with advantage to white

Thus, instead of 16. ... Qxc5, black should play 16. ... Rxc5 with an even game





« Last Edit: 01/19/04 at 03:10:34 by alumbrado »  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #12 - 01/17/04 at 21:15:03
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14.Ne5 is an interesting resource that I hadn't considered, but I think black can meet this with the surprising 14...Rxe5:

1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.d4 exd4 5.Qxd4 Na6 6.Nf3 Bc5 7.Qd1 0-0 8.Nc3 Re8 9.0-0 d6 10.Na4 Bf5 11.a3 d5

12.Qb3 dxc4 13.Qxb7 Qa5

14.Ne5 Rxe5

-15.Qxa8+ Re8 16.Qxc6 Bd7-+

-15.Nxc5 Rb8 16.Qxa6 Qxc5 17.Qxc6 Qxc6 18.Bxc6 Rxe2

which reaches an endgame that I think is clearly better for black, though I think white has better chances to survive than in the other endgame.

A possible continuation is

19.Bf3 Re7 (19...Rc2? 20.Bd1) when it seems white needs to try to free himself soon with a move like 20.Be3, since if white tries to keep the b-pawn (leaving the bishop on c1), then black can slowly dominate by improving the position of his pieces (Bf5-d3, Nf6-d7-c5-b3, etc.), while white is short of moves.  19...Re7 defends the a-pawn preparing for 20.Be3.

Though after 20.Be3 Bxb2, black is probably not far from winning, since the c-pawn is far advanced.

So if my analysis is correct, I think 12...dxc4 refutes 12.Qb3, but 14.Ne5 makes it a little more complicated than I thought it was.
« Last Edit: 01/19/04 at 03:10:17 by alumbrado »  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #11 - 01/17/04 at 10:02:05
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Now, after further analysis I see that white can play
14. Ne5!



1. c4 e5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 c6 4. d4 exd4 5. Qxd4 Na6 6. Nf3 Bc5 7. Qd1 O-O 8. Nc3 Re8 9. O-O d6 10. Na4 Bf5 11. a3 d5 12. Qb3 dxc4 13. Qxb7 Qa5 14. Ne5!! Qxa4
15. Bxc6 Qa5 16. Qxf7+ Kh8 17. Nxc4 Qc7 18. Qxc7 Nxc7 19. Bxa8 Nxa8 with the advantage to white.

« Last Edit: 01/19/04 at 03:10:01 by alumbrado »  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #10 - 01/17/04 at 09:48:20
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Yeah. Your right. I analysed the wrong thing. I think that the final verdict is the 12. Qb3 is not a good move and that white should follow the advice from your first post
« Last Edit: 01/19/04 at 03:09:44 by alumbrado »  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #9 - 01/17/04 at 00:49:54
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I'm confused by the last post.  My analysis was on the line

1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.d4 exd4 5.Qxd4 Na6 6.Nf3 Bc5 7.Qd1 0-0 8.Nc3 Re8 9.0-0 d6 10.Na4 Bf5 11.a3 d5

12.Qb3 dxc4 13.Qxb7 Qa5,

not 12...Qa5 (which I don't think is a very good move).
« Last Edit: 01/19/04 at 03:09:27 by alumbrado »  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #8 - 01/16/04 at 20:21:17
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Yup, sacanode your 100 percent correct.

I now think that after further analysis (and with the help of fritz 8), that white should play 13. Bd2!



1. c4 e5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 c6 4. d4 exd4 5. Qxd4 Na6
6. Nf3 Bc5 7. Qd1 O-O 8. Nc3 Re8 9. O-O d6 10. Na4 Bf5 11. a3 d5 12. Qb3 12... Qa5 13. Bd2!

13. ... Qd8 14. Qxb7 Qc8 15. Qxc8 Raxc8 16. Nxc5 Nxc5 17. Nd4 Bg4 18. cxd5 cxd5 19. b4 Nce4 White is winning

13... Qc7 14. cxd5 Nxd5 15. Rac1 Bf8 16. Nd4 equal

13... dxc4 14. Qxc4 Be6 15. Bxa5 Bxc4 16. Rfc1 b5 17. Nxc5 Nxc5 18. Nd4 Nce4 19. b3 equal

thanks.

« Last Edit: 01/19/04 at 03:09:05 by alumbrado »  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #7 - 01/16/04 at 20:14:30
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1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.d4 exd4 5.Qxd4 Na6 6.Nf3 Bc5 7.Qd1 0-0 8.Nc3 Re8 9.0-0 d6 10.Na4 Bf5 11.a3 d5

12.Qb3 dxc4 13.Qxb7 Qa5 14.Nxc5 Nxc5

Now I agree that 15.Qb4 is a better move than 15.Qxc6 (which I believe my analysis shows to be losing), but I am completely unconvinced by the claim of equality after

15.Qb4 Qxb4 16.axb4

After

16.axb4 Nb3 17.Ra6 Rxe2

isn't this simply a favourable endgame for black?  Black is very active and is already a pawn up at the moment.  Maybe white has drawing chances, but I have yet to see equality.

For example, after
-18.Rxc6 Bd3 black has considerable pressure (For one thing, white must deal with the possibility of 19...Rc2).
-18.Be3 Nd5
-18.Nh4 Bd3 19.Bxc6 Rd8 20.Be3 Nd5 21.Bxd5 Rxd5 22.Rxa7 h6
White has a difficult defensive task ahead once the c-pawn is unopposed.  I am tempted to say that black is close to winning.  If this is the type of endgame white is aiming for with 12.Qb3, then I am unimpressed.
« Last Edit: 01/19/04 at 03:08:51 by alumbrado »  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #6 - 01/16/04 at 15:34:21
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After,  1. c4 e5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 c6 4. d4 exd4 5. Qxd4 Na6 6. Nf3 Bc5 7. Qd1 O-O 8. Nc3 Re8 9. O-O d6 10. Na4 Bf5 11. a3 d5 12. Qb3 dxc4 13. Qxb7 Qa5
14. Nxc5 Nxc5 then, (instead of Qxc6?!) 15. Qb4! Qxb4 (15... Qb6 16. Be3 Nfd7 17. Qxb6 axb6 equal White gets developed)
16. axb4 equal
White then developes his bishop, soon, catching up totally in developement.




« Last Edit: 01/19/04 at 03:08:37 by alumbrado »  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #5 - 01/16/04 at 13:40:22
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After

1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.d4 exd4 5.Qxd4 Na6 6.Nf3 Bc5 7.Qd1 0-0 8.Nc3 Re8 9.0-0 d6 10.Na4 Bf5 11.a3 d5
(following the Christiansen-Zuger game),

I think 12.Qb3 is a blunder:

12.Qb3? dxc4 13.Qxb7 (13.Qxc4 b5-+) 13...Qa5! 14.Nxc5 (14.Nh4 Rb8 15.Qxc6 Bd7-+; 14.b4 Qxa4 15.bxc5 Nxc5 16.Qc7 Nd5 17.Qd6 Ne4-+) 14...Nxc5 15.Qxc6 and white is in serious trouble.  For example, 15...Be4 16.Qd6 Rad8 17.Qf4 Nb3-+

I think this further supports my point that white needs to concentrate more on his situation in the center.
« Last Edit: 01/19/04 at 03:08:20 by alumbrado »  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #4 - 01/16/04 at 09:02:46
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It looks like after
1. c4 e5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 c6 4. d4 exd4 5. Qxd4 Na6
6. Nf3 Bc5 7. Qd1 O-O 8. Nc3 Re8 9. O-O d6 10. Na4 Bf5 11. a3 d5,
White could play
12. Qb3!?. This at least equalizes for white. After Rxe2 0r dxc4, white has 13. Qxb7 white has Qc8 which wins {
any bishop moves lose the knight except for Bxf2 which loses the bishop} (13...
Nc7 14. Nxc5 {winning the bishop}) 14. Nxc5 {winning the bishop} *

If Rb8, then,
13. cxd5 Nxd5 14. Nh4 Bc8 with the initiative for white (14... Be6 15. Rd1 Nf6 {otherwise e4} 16.
Rxd8 Bxb3 17. Rxe8+ Rxe8 18. Nxc5 Nxc5 19. Be3 b6 20. Rc1 equal)

« Last Edit: 01/19/04 at 03:07:55 by alumbrado »  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #3 - 01/16/04 at 06:17:59
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In Christiansen-Zuger, I agree that 10.b3 is better than the plan chosen in the game.  I think black is well prepared to deal with an early queenside expansion like this.  As in the game, Black simply gained control of the center and white didn't have much to show on the queenside.  With a timely ...d5, it seems like black can easily limit the scope of the white-squared bishop, obtaining a favourable Tarrasch position (White's development seems too slow compared to a regular Tarrasch).

Here is the game:

[Event "Bern Cup"]
[Site "Bern"]
[Date "1996.??.??"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Zueger,Beat"]
[Black "Christiansen,Larry Mark"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "A20"]
1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.d4 exd4 5.Qxd4 Na6 6.Nf3 Bc5 7.Qd1 0-0 8.Nc3 Re8
9.0-0 d6 10.Na4 Bf5 11.a3 d5 12.Nxc5 Nxc5 13.Nd4 Bg6 14.b4 Nce4 15.c5 b6 16.Bb2 bxc5
17.bxc5 Rc8 18.Rc1 Qe7 19.a4 Ng4 20.Nf3 f6 21.Bd4 Bh5 22.Re1 Rb8 23.Nd2 Nexf2 24.Bxf2 Nxf2
25.Kxf2 Qe3+ 26.Kf1 Rb2 27.Rc2 Rxc2 28.Qxc2 Bxe2+ 29.Rxe2 Qxe2+ 30.Kg1 Qe3+ 31.Kh1 Qf2 0-1

I think white needs to focus more on contesting black's central development.  I think the following game is worth looking at:

[Event "BEL-chT 9798"]
[Site "Antwerp"]
[Date "1997.??.??"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Cekro,Ekrem"]
[Black "Van Mechelen,Jan"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "A20"]
1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.d4 exd4 5.Qxd4 Na6 6.Nf3 Bc5 7.Qe5+ Be7 8.0-0 0-0
9.Nc3 Re8 10.Qd4 Bc5 11.Qd1 d6 12.b3 Bf5 13.Bb2 Qe7 14.Nd4 Bg6 15.e4 Nb4 16.Nf5 Bxf5
17.exf5 Qe5 18.a3 Bd4 19.Qd2 Na6 20.Rae1 Bxc3 21.Bxc3 Qxf5 22.Qxd6 Red8 23.Qe7 Rd7 24.Qe2 Nc5
25.Bxf6 gxf6 26.b4 Nb3 27.Be4 Qe5 28.Qg4+  1-0

In the game, white played 7.Qe5+, but it amounted to a transposition to the suggested 10.b3 (after 12.b3 in the game).  This leads me to think that 7.Qe5+ is at most a transposition to 7.Qd1, which simply gives black more options.  I don't like how the queen is stranded in the center like this.  Also 7...Qe7 seems good after 7.Qe5+ as in the game Kosten-Collins:

[Event "BCF-chT 0102 (4NCL)"]
[Site "West Bromwich"]
[Date "2002.11.23"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Kosten,Anthony C"]
[Black "Collins,Sam"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "A20"]
1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.d4 exd4 5.Qxd4 Na6 6.Nf3 Bc5 7.Qe5+ Qe7 8.Qxe7+ Bxe7
9.0-0 d5 10.cxd5 Nxd5 11.e4 Ndb4 12.Ne1 Nc5 13.Bd2 a5 14.Bc3 Be6 15.b3 0-0 16.Nd2 Rfd8
17.Nef3 Bg4 18.a3 Bxf3 19.Bxf3 Nc2 20.Ra2 Nd4 21.Bd1 Nb5 22.Ba1 Nxa3 23.Rxa3 Rxd2 24.b4 Nd3
25.Rxa5 Rxa5 26.bxa5 Bc5 27.Bb3 Nxf2 28.Kg2 h5 29.g4 Nxg4+ 30.Kg3 Rd3+ 31.Rf3 Rxf3+ 32.Kxf3 Nxh2+
33.Kg2 Ng4 34.Bc3 Kf8 35.e5 Ke7 36.Kf3 g6 37.Kf4 Ne3 38.Bd2 Nd5+ 39.Kf3 Bd4 40.Ke4 Bc3
41.Bg5+ Ke6 42.Bc4 Bxe5 43.a6 bxa6 44.Bxa6 f5+ 45.Kf3 Bf6 46.Bc1 c5 0-1

Cekro-Van Mechelen seems like the most logical plan to me (ignoring the queen sortie with 7.Qe5+).  If white can successfully contest the center with e4, I think this is the way to go.  

Has GM Kosten covered this line?  It would interesting to see if he has comments on this line.  I think this plan for black is quite interesting.  

On a side note, I have noticed that often a good way to find a good line to play against an opening is to look at the games of the authors (or, more generally, specialists in the opening) who wrote repertoire books on the opening, and see where they have the most trouble in their own games.  Often this may indicate a weakness in their coverage of the line!  I imagine it takes some guts for an author to play the lines he recommends in his book!

   
« Last Edit: 01/19/04 at 03:07:35 by alumbrado »  

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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #2 - 01/15/04 at 22:51:29
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Actually 7.Qe5+ was my first instinct, but I don't think the move is good.  After 7...Be7 the Bishop isn't really poorly placed and it probably won't have to stay there anyway after Black castles and plays ...Re8 White will at some point have to lose time with his Queen.
« Last Edit: 01/19/04 at 03:07:17 by alumbrado »  
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Re: Keres System against English 2.g3
Reply #1 - 01/15/04 at 21:43:43
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what about the move 6. Nf3 Bc5 7. Qe5+! forcing the bishop to retreat.
« Last Edit: 01/19/04 at 03:07:03 by alumbrado »  
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Keres System against English 2.g3
01/15/04 at 20:02:01
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In "C.O.O.L. Chess" Motwani gives an interesting idea that I'd like to know how to combat from the White side, it goes:  

1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.d4 exd4 5.Qxd4 and now Christiansen playing against Züger at the Bern Chess Festival back in 1996 played 5...Na6.  He got good play after 6.Nf3 Bc5 7.Qd1 O-O 8.Nc3 Re8 9.O-O d6 10.Na4 (10.b3 I think is suggested as better) 10...Bf5 11.a3 d5!

In Chess theory terms that was a long time ago.  Anyone know the best method for White?
« Last Edit: 01/19/04 at 03:06:48 by alumbrado »  
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