ChessPub Forum - 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 ??

(UTC)

Latest Updates:

Dragon Sicilians - 08 Nov French Defence - 05 Nov English, Flank - 05 Nov

ChessPub Forum › Chess Publishing Openings › 1. d4 d5 2. c4 › 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 ??

(Moderators: proustiskeen, Jupp53)

‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›

Page Index Toggle

Pages: [1] 2

Topic Tools

Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies)

1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 ?? (Read 17747 times)

Glenn Snow God Member Offline Posts: 1720 Location: Franklin Joined: 09/27/03 Gender:	Re: 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 ?? Reply #23 - 02/28/06 at 14:53:09	Post Tools	Print Post
	Since posting the above the thread has been kindly moved by GMTonyKosten. Unfortunately I waited to long to delete the post.


	IP Logged

Glenn Snow God Member Offline Posts: 1720 Location: Franklin Joined: 09/27/03 Gender:	Re: 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 ?? Reply #22 - 02/04/06 at 16:01:25	Post Tools	Print Post
	Isn't this thread in the wrong place?


	IP Logged

basqueknight Ex Member	Re: 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 ?? Reply #21 - 07/01/05 at 08:46:35	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2.nf3 this used to be a fvorite of capablanca. Rather this is important or not im not sure. Most games i have seen from him just turn into a queens gambit


	IP Logged

Semkov Guest	Re: 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 ?? Reply #20 - 06/08/05 at 10:43:54	Post Tools	Print Post
	I like 4.e4 too, but theoretically Black is holding.


	IP Logged

Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: vRe: 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 ?? Reply #19 - 06/08/05 at 07:36:25	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Excuse me, Markovich, why are you so happy to obtain the 3...a6 QGA? I do not claim that it is very good for Black, but frankly, I do not know any clear way to White's edge. Have you something concrete in mind? No, I have nothing concrete in mind. I'm just expressing my opinion that White is good. I had a chess friend, now deceased, who liked to play 1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. Nf3 a6; usually I would reply 4. e4, a move with which I always seemed to obtain excellent chances. Since 4. e3 is also a good move, it seems that White has a pleasant choice.

	The Great Oz has spoken!
	IP Logged

Semkov Guest	vRe: 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 ?? Reply #18 - 06/07/05 at 03:32:34	Post Tools	Print Post
	Excuse me, Markovich, why are you so happy to obtain the 3...a6 QGA? I do not claim that it is very good for Black, but frankly, I do not know any clear way to White's edge. Have you something concrete in mind?


	IP Logged

Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 ?? Reply #17 - 06/05/05 at 21:06:50	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 c5?! 3.c4! is White's dream in d4-openings. Black has a bad choice between Tarrasch and a sideline of the QGA. Conversely, 2...Nf6! keeps all Black's options open while White already lost the chance for the best lines in the Exchange variation against the GGD. This list can easily be prolonged: White is unable also to play 3.Nc3, 4.e3 against the Slav. I agree that 2...Nf6 is objectively best. But I don't think that White sacrifices his += birthright if he plays 2. Nf3. I doubt that White would play this way if he wanted to play the Exchange; more likely he wants a classical QGD or a Catalan. Also, needless to say, it must be that his preferred line against the QGA is not 3. e4 and his preferred treatment of the Slav is not 3. Nc3, 4. e3. But these are not the only ways to obtain += against the QGA and the Slav, respectively. Even more likely, this position arises after 1. Nf3 d5 2. d4. To address a point raised earlier on the thread, as White I would be very happy to encounter 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 a6 3. c4 dxc4.

	The Great Oz has spoken!
	IP Logged

Semkov Guest	Re: 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 ?? Reply #16 - 06/05/05 at 08:28:30	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 c5?! 3.c4! is White's dream in d4-openings. Black has a bad choice between Tarrasch and a sideline of the QGA. Conversely, 2...Nf6! keeps all Black's options open while White already lost the chance for the best lines in the Exchange variation against the GGD. This list can easily be prolonged: White is unable also to play 3.Nc3, 4.e3 against the Slav.


	IP Logged

HgMan God Member Offline Demand me nothing: What you know, you know Posts: 2330 Location: Up on Cripple Creek Joined: 11/09/04 Gender:	Re: 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 ?? Reply #15 - 06/04/05 at 20:31:48	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Hmm ... sorry Billy but I am not so sure about any of this. The problem with 2...e6 and 2...c6 is precisely that they commit Black to a QGD/Slav set-up, before White has committed himself to the Queen's Gambit, and so cut down on his options if White chooses to refrain from playing c2-c4. White can, for example, play the Colle with 3.e3, when Black might want to develop his bishop outside the pawn chain and/or finachetto his king's bishop with ...g7-g6, neither of which is really an option after 2...e6. And after 2...c6, White can go into a London system with 3.Bf4, when Black has effectively ruled out an early strike back with ...c5 (if he plays this now, it will cost him a clear tempo). These systems are both very popular at club level, so I simply don't agree that White will "almost definitely" play c2-c4 at some point! As for 2...a6, it is an interesting idea, but again I am not sure what it contributes against 3.Bf4 or 3.e3, while if White does play 3.c4, you are simply left with the options of transposing to a Chebanenko Slav with 3...c6 or a QGA with 3...dxc4. Hardly 'unkown territory' ... I agree that 2 ... c6 is a little committal, but I'm inclined to think it's still very solid and against the Colle, it's not like the extra tempo really jeopardizes Black's play. A recent correspondence game of mine went: 1 Nf3 d5 2 d4 c6 3 c3 Bf5 4 Bf4 Qb6 5 Qc1?! Nd7 6 e3 Ngf6 7 Nbd2 e6 8 Be2 Rc8 9 Nh4 Bg6 10 Nxg6 hxg6 11 h3 c5 and Black went on to win after White hung a piece at move 20. In retrospect, Rc8 wasn't necessary and h6 probably was, but Black is solid and is bound to enjoy equality...

	"Luck favours the prepared mind." --Louis Pasteur
	IP Logged

TopNotch God Member Offline I only look 1 move ahead, but its always the best Posts: 2211 Joined: 01/04/03 Gender:	Re: 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 ?? Reply #14 - 06/04/05 at 18:45:32	Post Tools	Print Post
	At least 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 avoids the Albin Counter Gambit. But then again why would you want to avoid the Albin's. Top

	The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones
	IP Logged

Frankly Junior Member Offline The power to make men happy or to drive them mad Posts: 74 Location: Johannesburg Joined: 03/31/05 Gender:	Re: 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 ?? Reply #13 - 06/04/05 at 16:16:26	Post Tools	Print Post
	Thanks for that Bob000. I suppose 2...Nf6 is always going to be safer. But the c5 early on seems to do okay statistically, and I'm sure it's less expected by the player of d4 followed by Nf3 than the other lines.


	IP Logged

bob000 Guest	Re: 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 ?? Reply #12 - 06/04/05 at 15:14:14	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Bg4?! 3.Ne4 Bf4/h4 4.c4 seems like white has a pull with a well timed Qb3. 1.d4 d4 2.Nf3 c5 hoping for a reversed QGD will get a nasty shock after 3.c4! where black may find himself in a Tarrasch or a queenless middlegame where white has a large lead in development. Just because white doesn't play 2.c4 doesn't mean the move isn't coming shortly. You have to be careful of getting move ordered into a bad game. 1.d4 d4 2.Nf3 a6 looks interesting 3.c4 xc4 4.e3 b5? 5.a4 c6 6.Qf3 looks good for white 4... other transposes into QGA 3...e6 looks like a QGD with premature a6 3...c6 is is the a6 slav Though here a6 seems to waste time and white might be able to get a pull without c4 3.Bg4 definitely looks likes a Tromp con tiempo and white can follow the three games Billy gave or maybe 3...Bg6 Ne5 Also possible 3.Nc3 Nf6 (otherwise black gets a bad french) Bg5 3..Nd7 4.Ne5 3....Ne4 4.Nxe4 xe4 where white is down time put has better pawn structure or 4.B move where white has worse pawns but a big center and development. 3.g3 is also a possibility. My recommendation? 2...Nf6! Now after c4 go into anti c4 opening or if white again delays it play Bf4 or Bg4 where there are no more bad transpositions.


	IP Logged

Frankly Junior Member Offline The power to make men happy or to drive them mad Posts: 74 Location: Johannesburg Joined: 03/31/05 Gender:	Re: 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 ?? Reply #11 - 06/04/05 at 14:44:31	Post Tools	Print Post
	I was looking for discussion around 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 c5 3. e3, and this thread was the closest I got. Unfortunately, my shared desire (with that of Spakus) for comment on 2...c5 was not fulfilled. The advantage of 2...c5 for me is that I play QG as white, and recognise the position (albeit now behind in tempo) from the formation. Hence less unchartered water than other queen pawn games. Linking up to another post (re 2...Bg4!?), what about (for Black) - 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 c5 3. e3 Bg4 ? I tried this recently and made an awful blunder early on which meant I could not really test it properly. Put differently, getting hammered had little to do with 3...Bg4. Since the line did not appear in some databases I considered afterwards, I assumed it was simply unsound (against a more traditional knight move for black). Comment, insight and literature references greatly appreciated.


	IP Logged

notagmyet Junior Member Offline I heart the Caro-Kann Posts: 72 Location: Oldham Joined: 08/26/03 Gender:	Re: 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 ?? Reply #10 - 03/26/04 at 12:06:29	Post Tools	Print Post
	I know what spakus means about not liking the feel of 2...Bg4; as it is a reversed Tromp after all! But at least you develop a piece with Bg4 unlike 2...a6 (though that looks interesting too!)

	"When I am White, I am because I am White. When I am Black, I win because I am Bogolyubov" (?!) - Efim Bogolyubov, noted chess player and optimist.
	IP Logged

Glenn Snow God Member Offline Posts: 1720 Location: Franklin Joined: 09/27/03 Gender:	Re: 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 ?? Reply #9 - 01/30/04 at 20:25:19	Post Tools	Print Post
	I was somewhat skeptical at first, but 2...a6!? seems quite viable to me now. I may even try out 1.d4 d5 2.a3!? in some speed games, although I think the idea lends itself more to a counterattacking setting.


	IP Logged

Page Index Toggle

Pages: [1] 2

Topic Tools

‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›

Bookmarks:

del.icio.us

Digg

Google

Google+

reddit

StumbleUpon

Yahoo

« Board Index ‹ Board Top

Top

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2025. All Rights Reserved.

Valid XHTML

Valid CSS

Powered by Perl

Source Forge