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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Worrying line in the c3 Sicilian (Read 14603 times)
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To AmeteurDragoneer
Reply #25 - 12/21/04 at 15:28:29
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Quote:
Philosophy stands in the same relation to the study of the actual world as masturbation to sexual love.

Karl Marx

I thought the bit about religion made no sense so I looked it up.
  
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MNb
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Re: Worrying line in the c3 Sicilian
Reply #24 - 05/11/04 at 05:34:00
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Maybe White can play on with 18.Qxg4 Bxg3 19.f3 Bf5 20.Bc3 with the pair of bishops, but 17…Qg4! Is an important idea indeed.
  
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Bernhard
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Re: Worrying line in the c3 Sicilian
Reply #23 - 05/04/04 at 10:53:36
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The line madhacker is worrying about gives nothing for white. After
1. e4 c5 2. c3 d5 3. ed5 Qd5 4. d4 Nc6 5. Nf3 cd4 6. cd4 e5 7. Nc3 Bb4 8. Bd2 Bc3 9. Bc3 e4 10. Ne5 Ne5 11. de5 Ne7 12. Qe2 0-0 13. Rd1
Black can play
13...Qa2! 14. Bb4 Qe6 15. Qe4 Re8 16. Bb5 Nc6 17.0-0
All the Books I have evaluate this position as +/=,
but Black can play 17...Qg4! 18.Bc6(what else?) bc6 19.Qc6 Ba6! 20.Qa6 Qb4 and this ending is completely drawn.
  
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Re: Worrying line in the c3 Sicilian
Reply #22 - 05/04/04 at 06:40:11
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Earlier the line 1.e4 c5 2.c3 d5 3.ed Qd5 4.d4 Nf6 5.Nf3 Bg4 6.dc was mentioned.  I had a rather nasty experience on the black side of this at the recent 4NCL meeting.  The game continued 6...Qd1 7.Kd1 e5 8.b4 e4 9.h3 Bh5 10.g4 Ng4 11.hg Bg4 12.Nbd2 ef at which point NCO evaluates the position as unclear.  In my preparation I looked at 13.Bc4 but 13.Bd3 as played in the game is stronger and I think white is clearly better.

6...Qc5 7.Na3 also looks tricky.  Is there anyone out there that plays this line for black and knows of a decent line?
  
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Wonderer
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Re: Worrying line in the c3 Sicilian
Reply #21 - 04/20/04 at 16:45:47
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R & H don't mention 4.-Nf6, but the trusty old database had a few top level encounters that went more than OK for white:

Baklan,V (2570) - Bezold,M (2490) [B22]
Berliner Sommer Berlin (5), 1997

1.e4 c5 2.c3 Qa5 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Bc4 Nf6 5.d3 e6 6.Bb3 d5 7.e5 Nd7 8.Qe2 h6 9.h3 c4 10.Bc2 cxd3 11.Bxd3 Qc7 12.Bf4 f6 13.Bb5 Kd8 14.Bxc6 bxc6 15.Nbd2 Nc5 16.b4 Na4 17.Rc1 a5 18.Nd4 c5 19.bxc5 Bxc5 20.0-0 f5 21.N2f3 Ke7 22.c4 Ba6 23.Nxe6 Kxe6 24.cxd5+ Kxd5 25.Qd1+ Ke6 26.Nd4+ Ke7 27.Qxa4 Bxf1 28.Nc6+ Kf8 29.Rxc5 Ba6 30.e6 Qb6 31.Rxf5+ Kg8 32.Ne7+ Kh7 33.Qe4 Qb4 34.Qc2 Qc4 35.Qb2 Rad8 36.Rf7 Rd1+ 37.Kh2 Qd4 38.Qxd4 Rxd4 39.Be5 Rg4 40.f3 Rg6 41.Nxg6 Kxg6 42.g4 Rg8 43.h4 Bc4 44.h5+ Kh7 45.Re7 Bxa2 46.f4 a4 47.f5 1-0



Rozentalis,E (2585) - Miezis,N (2520) [B22]
Troll Masters, Gausdal NOR (8), 2003

1.e4 c5 2.c3 Qa5 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Bc4 Nf6 5.d3 e6 6.Bg5 d5 7.exd5 exd5 8.Bxf6 dxc4 9.Bh4 cxd3 10.Qxd3 Be6 11.0-0 c4 12.Qe2 Bd6 13.Rd1 Bc7 14.Na3 0-0 15.Nxc4 Qa6 16.b3 h6 17.Nd4 Bxc4 18.Qxc4 Qxc4 19.bxc4 Rfe8 20.Rab1 Bb6 21.Nxc6 bxc6 22.Re1 Ba5 23.Re3 Bb6 24.Ree1 Ba5 ½-½



Kristjansson,S (2400) - Sigfusson,S (2320) [B22]
ch-ISL, Hafnarborg ISL (3), 2003

1.e4 c5 2.c3 Qa5 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Bc4 Nf6 5.Qe2 e6 6.0-0 Be7 7.d3 d5 8.Bb3 dxe4 9.dxe4 Qc7 10.Na3 h6 11.e5 Nd7 12.Bf4 g5 13.Bg3 h5 14.h3 a6 15.Nc4 Kf8 16.Rad1 Nb6 17.Nd6 Bd7 18.Qe3 g4 19.hxg4 hxg4 20.Ng5 Nd8 21.Qf4 Bxd6 22.exd6 Qc6 23.Qf6 Rh5 24.Be5 1-0
  
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Re: Worrying line in the c3 Sicilian
Reply #20 - 04/20/04 at 16:09:22
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In the above line I believe the article said that 4...Nf6! was correct. (after 4.Bc4)
  
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Wonderer
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Re: Worrying line in the c3 Sicilian
Reply #19 - 04/20/04 at 04:51:33
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Yes, if there's more to be had!

R&H indicate that white can get a considerable advantage with:

1.e4 c5 2.c3 Qa5 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Bc4 d6 5.0-0 Nf6 6.Re1 b5 7.Bd5 Bd7 8.d4 e6 9.Bb3

  
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Re: Worrying line in the c3 Sicilian
Reply #18 - 04/19/04 at 19:52:30
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Chandler: "White had the better endgame in Makropoulous-Ljubojevic, Athens 1981."
Anything wrong with a slight or more than slight endgame advantage?
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Wonderer
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Re: Worrying line in the c3 Sicilian
Reply #17 - 04/19/04 at 17:02:32
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Quote:
2...Qa5 3Nf3 Nc6 4d4 cxd4 5.b4


According to Rozentalis & Harley:

"5.-Qc7 6.b5 Ne5 7.Nxe5 Qxe5 8.Qxd4 'gives white only a slight endgame advantage' Makropoulos-Ljubojevic, Athens 1981."
  
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Re: Worrying line in the c3 Sicilian
Reply #16 - 04/19/04 at 16:13:23
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Chandler in his 1981 edition of "Sicilian 2c3" already gave 2...Qa5 3Nf3 Nc6 4d4 cxd4 5.b4 += or with transposition 1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 Qa5 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.b4.
Anything wrong with this?
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Worrying line in the c3 Sicilian
Reply #15 - 04/19/04 at 06:44:12
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In one of the "New In Chess" magazines there was an article on 1.e4 c5 2.c3 Qa5!?.  If White played 3.Nf3 they had Black playing 3...Nc6 which would transpose to 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.c3 Qa5 of course.  I don't really trust it but the article seemed interesting.  Lane analyses a couple of games on this in his section.
  
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Re: Worrying line in the c3 Sicilian
Reply #14 - 04/16/04 at 08:56:37
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Thanks for this. As you can tell I know nothing about the line, but on the evidence I've had so far I don't care for it. Even if there's a good defence to 4 d4 there's still 4 Bc4 immediately -- how does Black improve on, say, Angelov--Delchev from the '91 Bulgarian Championship?
  
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Re: Worrying line in the c3 Sicilian
Reply #13 - 04/15/04 at 17:16:22
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Black should not take on d4 that eagerly:
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.c3 e5 4.d4 and both exd4 and cxd4 can be answered with 5.Bc4, leading to some kind of Danish or Morra Gambit in a version that favours White.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Worrying line in the c3 Sicilian
Reply #12 - 04/15/04 at 08:41:06
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Daring idea! The usual try seems to be to take twice on d4 (and chuck in ...Bb4) first. This is wild stuff!
  
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Re: Worrying line in the c3 Sicilian
Reply #11 - 04/15/04 at 08:26:27
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No, not at all - it really was just a rather random, off-the-top-of-the-head suggestion!  In fact, no sooner had I posted it, than I started to wonder what happens if White simply goes 4.d4.  White must have an edge after 4...d6 5.dxe5 dxe5 6.Qxd8+, surely?

Can Black get away with 4.d4 Nf6 ?
  
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