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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Pseudo-Tromp (Read 11484 times)
jeupham
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Re: Pseudo-Tromp
Reply #15 - 01/10/05 at 14:05:36
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Of course AJM was much stronger that Scott (and I know nothing more about him) but if we are to name openings based who has played them a lot then that would start an interesting trend:

English -> Uhlmann or Cafferty Opening
Dutch Defence -> Bellin Defence
Scandinavian -> Wahls or Rogers Defence
Caro-Kann -> Botvinnik Defence

etc

The Pseudo-Tromp is an ugly name as is "The SideStep". Joking apart I would love to see AJM immortalised with a named opening and would support the PT being named after him. 

I wouldn't like to forget the ideas originators just because they weren't famous players: that's all.

JEU


 

  
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JordanKwiatek
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Re: Pseudo-Tromp
Reply #14 - 01/10/05 at 06:45:39
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1.d5 d4 2. Bg5!? Just reeks of Unorthodoxy. It is a particularly fine example of Tony Miles' style. Not to take anything away from your dear friend Mr. Scott, but Tony was a far stronger player than "Mr.Scott" and thus probably devoted his time and efforts more in the direction of chess unorthodoxy, until his unusual style of play warrented the title of Grandmaster. Mr. Scott obviosly did'nt devout his life to chess as much as Tony. Tony surely was one of the strongest players ever to play and study this opening. Miles was just like this opening, cunning and elusive, its not just a name. He also USED it in a lot of important games. Future chess fans can look at this opening and say, "Hmmm, the MILES attack eh? WHO was this Miles???" Hopefully Anthony Miles will be immortalized in this unorthodoxy, leaving a lasting imprint on chess that  will help future generations of Unorthodxy evolve.

And now, the evidence...
We already saw Miles out-maneuver Kramnik in a positional game, now watch as he cooly dismantles 2600+ Mathew Sadler in a elegant but efficient endgame. [Event "It (cat.13)"]
[Site "Hastings (England)"]
[Date "1996.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "6"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Miles Anthony J (ENG)"]
[Black "Sadler Matthew (ENG)"]
[ECO "D00"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "98"]

1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 h6 3.Bh4 c6 4.e3 Qb6
5.Qc1 Bf5 6.Nf3 Nd7 7.c4 e6 8.Nc3 Be7
9.c5 Qd8 10.Bg3 a5 11.a3 a4 12.Be2 Ngf6
13.O-O Ne4 14.Nxe4 Bxe4 15.Qc3 O-O 16.Rfc1 Ra7
17.Ne5 Nxe5 18.Bxe5 b6 19.Bd6 bxc5 20.Qxc5 Rb7
21.Bxe7 Qxe7 22.Qxe7 Rxe7 23.f3 Bg6 24.Bd1 Ra7
25.Rc3 Rb8 26.b4 axb3 27.Rxb3 Rxb3 28.Bxb3 Bd3
29.a4 Rb7 30.Ra3 Kf8 31.Kf2 Ke7 32.Ke1 Ba6
33.Kd2 Kd6 34.Bc2 c5 35.Rb3 Rxb3 36.Bxb3 Bf1
37.g3 e5 38.dxe5+ Kxe5 39.Bc2 Kd6 40.Bd3 Bxd3
41.Kxd3 h5 42.e4 d4 43.f4 Kc6 44.h3 Kb6
45.e5 Ka5 46.f5 Kb4 47.e6 c4 48.Kc2 d3
49.Kc1  1-0
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessplayer?pid=27493
Next 2 English Masters of strange battle it out including one of our own site pro's.(sorry Andy!)
[Event "Benasque"]
[Site "Benasque"]
[Date "1995.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "2"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Miles Anthony J (ENG)"]
[Black "A Martin"]
[ECO "D00"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "68"]

1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 c5 3.dxc5 Nf6 4.Bxf6 gxf6
5.e3 Qa5+ 6.Nc3 e6 7.Qd4 Nc6 8.Bb5 Bd7
9.Qxf6 Rg8 10.Ne2 Bxc5 11.O-O Be7 12.Qf4 Qb6
13.Rad1 f5 14.Nd4 Rg4 15.Qh6 Nxd4 16.Qh5+ Kf8
17.Qh6+ Kg8 18.Bxd7 Rh4 19.Nxd5 Qd6 20.Nxe7+ Qxe7
21.Qxh4 Qxh4 22.Rxd4 Qe7 23.Rfd1 Kh8 24.Ba4 Rg8
25.g3 h5 26.Bb3 h4 27.Kf1 hxg3 28.hxg3 Qf6
29.Rh4+ Kg7 30.Rd7+ Kg6 31.Rdh7 Qxb2 32.R4h6+ Kg5
33.f4 Kg4 34.Kg2  1-0

Lastly, a gem, Miles shows his iron-clad technique, completly outmanuevering his opponant and alas ending with crushing tactics. 

[Event "Sakthi Madras IND"]
[Site "Sakthi Madras IND"]
[Date "1996.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "4"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Miles Anthony J (ENG)"]
[Black "S Lovlu"]
[ECO "D00"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "102"]

1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 Bf5 3.e3 Nd7 4.c4 h6
5.Bh4 c6 6.Nc3 Ngf6 7.Nf3 e6 8.Qb3 Qb6
9.c5 Qxb3 10.axb3 a6 11.b4 Rc8 12.Be2 Be7
13.Nd2 O-O 14.Nb3 Bd8 15.Na5 Bxa5 16.bxa5 Rfe8
17.Ra4 e5 18.Kd1 exd4 19.exd4 Nf8 20.Rb4 Rc7
21.Bg3 Rd7 22.f3 Re6 23.Kd2 Ne8 24.Ra1 f6
25.Ra3 Ree7 26.Rab3 Ne6 27.Bf2 Nd8 28.g4 Bh7
29.Bg3 g5 30.Na4 Re6 31.Nb6 Rf7 32.Nc8 Bg6
33.f4 gxf4 34.Bxf4 Rh7 35.Nd6 Nxd6 36.Bxd6 Rf7
37.Rh3 Rh7 38.Bf4 h5 39.gxh5 Be4 40.Rg3+ Kf8
41.Bg4 f5 42.Be2 Ke8 43.Rbb3 Kd7 44.Rg6 Re8
45.h6 Kc8 46.Bxa6 Ne6 47.Rxb7 Rxb7 48.h7 Nxf4
49.Rg8 Kd7 50.Bxb7 Ng6 51.Bxc6+  1-0

                                                                Jordan Kwiatek
  
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jeupham
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Re: Pseudo-Tromp
Reply #13 - 01/09/05 at 19:05:36
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I would be delighted if the PT became the Miles Attack or Opening etc. As I mentioned eariler, if the historical roots of chess are to be honoured then it ought to be the Scott Attack or Opening. 

We could rename the Trompowski the Hodgson Attack on the same basis but I'm sure Julian would pay homage nonetheless. 

JEU
  
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JordanKwiatek
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Re: Pseudo-Tromp
Reply #12 - 01/09/05 at 18:25:14
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My Message is simple and to the point. I think Tony Miles was one of the great unothodox opening experts, and he has left us with a wealth of opening ideas. This variation, (1.d4 d5 2.Bg5) should'nt be called the Psuedo-Tromp, or the Levitsky, its should instead be branded in history as Miles' opening, "the Miles", or Miles' attack, you get the idea. Lets give back to Miles, as he has givin so much to us. Anyways here is a nice positonal game to prove Miles not only played this opening, but could crush even Kramnik himself only a few years before his summit to the world championship.   
Many thanks Tony, may you rest in peace.

[Event "London (England)"]
[Site "London (England)"]
[Date "1995.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "1"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Miles Anthony J"]
[Black "Kramnik Vladimir"]
[ECO "D00"]
1. d4 d5 2. Bg5! Wink h6 3. Bh4 c6 4. e3 Qb6 5. Qc1 e5 6. c3 exd4 7. cxd4 Be7
8. Bxe7 Nxe7 9. Nc3 Bf5 10. Nf3 Nd7 11. Be2 O-O 12. O-O Bg4 13. Qc2 Rfe8
14. Rac1 Nf5 15. Bd3 Nd6 16. Nd2 Nf8 17. Na4 Qd8 18. Nc5 Qg5 19. Kh1
Rad8 20. Rce1 Bc8 21. b4 Qf6 22. a3 Ng6 23. Nf3 Bg4 24. Bxg6 Bxf3
25. Bh7+ Kh8 26. Bd3 Re7 27. Be2 Bxe2 28. Qxe2 Rde8 29. Qd3 Nf5 30. Rb1
Nh4 31. Qd1 a6 32. Qg4 Nf5 33. Kg1 Kg8 34. Rfc1 Nd6 35. a4 g6 36. Nd7
Qg7 37. Ne5 h5 38. Qf4 Re6 39. h3 Rf6 40. Qh2 Re7 41. Rc2 g5 42. Rbc1
Rh6 43. Qg3 Ne4 44. Qf3 f6 45. Nxc6 bxc6 46. Rxc6 Qf7 47. Qf5 Kg7
48. Rxa6 Rh8 49. b5 Rd8 50. Rcc6 Red7 51. Re6 Rc7 52. Rac6 Rxc6 53. Rxc6
Nd6 54. Qc2 Rd7 55. b6 Nc4 56. Qb1 Qe7 57. Qb5 g4 58. hxg4 hxg4 59. g3
Nd2 60. Rc8 Qf7 61. Qxd7 1-0


  
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MNb
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Re: Pseudo-Tromp
Reply #11 - 01/05/05 at 20:14:35
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What about 4.Bxf6 gxf6 trying to take benefit of the halfopen g-file? This idea is also known in the real Tromp.
  

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Re: Pseudo-Tromp
Reply #10 - 01/05/05 at 06:50:31
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Quote:
Well, after 3.Nc3 Black won't play 3...Qb6, I guess. 

In fact, one of the main ideas in 2.Bg5 line is to follow with e3 and c4 playing in QGD style by avoiding QGA, Slav and others. After 3.Nc3 it's no more possible. If you want to be active, you should play for e4. 

Personnaly, taking Black I would probably go for Veresov with 3...Nf6. By the way, the Tromp exchange 4.Bxf6 exf6 5.e4 dxe4 6.Nxe4 becomes a good Caro-Kann for Black  Smiley


After 3... Nf6 4. Bxf6 exf6, White won't open the position of course, but play e3/g3/Bg2 and try to get into a setup known from the 2... d5 3. Bxf6 exf6 Tromp. The knight on c3 can move to a4 or e2 later and White will advance the queenside pawns with c4/b4 etc. 

It may well be an inferior version of the original Tromp (though this is not so much proven) but at least it's still familar territory for the White player.   

Any other reasons against 3. Nc3?
  
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Re: Pseudo-Tromp
Reply #9 - 01/03/05 at 12:56:19
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Well, after 3.Nc3 Black won't play 3...Qb6, I guess. 

In fact, one of the main ideas in 2.Bg5 line is to follow with e3 and c4 playing in QGD style by avoiding QGA, Slav and others. After 3.Nc3 it's no more possible. If you want to be active, you should play for e4. 

Personnaly, taking Black I would probably go for Veresov with 3...Nf6. By the way, the Tromp exchange 4.Bxf6 exf6 5.e4 dxe4 6.Nxe4 becomes a good Caro-Kann for Black  Smiley
  
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Re: Pseudo-Tromp
Reply #8 - 01/02/05 at 05:42:49
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How about 1. d4 d5 2. Bg5 c6 3. Nc3!?
This line can arise from the Veresov and is recommended by Nigel Davies in his Veresov book.

The idea is simply to meet Qb6 with Rb1.  Grin

Opinions please?
  
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Re: Pseudo-Tromp
Reply #7 - 12/04/04 at 15:43:43
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5...Bg4!? is not new I played 6.Nf3 in my nice win against David,Al.
But I see it is time to prepare a new update on "the esoteric use of the move a2-a3" and its latest developments Smiley
  
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Re: Pseudo-Tromp
Reply #6 - 12/04/04 at 14:44:25
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Two recent games involving stronger players in this line. I liked Black's "counter-psuedo-tromp" move 5... Bg4 in the second game, for its humor alone.

[Event "Western Canadian op"]
[Site "Richmond"]
[Date "2004.07.09"]
[Round "5"]
[White "Welling, Gerard"]
[Black "Cramling, Pia"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D00"]
[WhiteElo "2361"]
[BlackElo "2489"]
[PlyCount "91"]

1. d4 d5 2. Bg5 h6 3. Bh4 c6 4. a3 Qb6 5. Ra2 Bf5 6. e3 Nd7 7. c4 Bxb1 8. Qxb1
e5 9. Nf3 e4 10. Nd2 g5 11. Bg3 f5 12. c5 Qd8 13. h4 Bg7 14. hxg5 hxg5 15. Rxh8
Bxh8 16. Bd6 Nh6 17. Be2 Nf6 18. b4 Nf7 19. Bg3 a6 20. a4 Qd7 21. b5 axb5 22.
axb5 Rxa2 23. Qxa2 cxb5 24. Qa5 Ke7 25. Bxb5 Qc8 26. Qa3 Ke6 27. Nb3 Nh5 28.
Bh2 g4 29. Qa7 f4 30. Qb6+ Kf5 31. Bxf4 Nxf4 32. exf4 Bf6 33. g3 Bd8 34. Qa7
Qc7 35. Ke2 Nh6 36. Qa1 Qe7 37. Qa4 Ke6 38. Be8 Ng8 39. Nd2 Nf6 40. Bg6 Qd7 41.
Qb4 Qc6 42. Kf1 Qa6+ 43. Kg1 Ba5 44. Qb2 e3 45. fxe3 Qe2 46. Qxb7 1-0


[Event "Pardubice Skanska op"]
[Site "Pardubice"]
[Date "2004.07.23"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Wirig, Anthony"]
[Black "Grigoriants, S."]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "D00"]
[WhiteElo "2435"]
[BlackElo "2250"]
[PlyCount "76"]

1. d4 d5 2. Bg5 c6 3. a3 h6 4. Bh4 Qb6 5. Ra2 Bg4 6. h3 Bh5 7. g4 Bg6 8. e3 Nd7
9. Nf3 h5 10. c4 Ngf6 11. Bxf6 hxg4 12. Nc3 gxf6 13. Nd2 gxh3 14. cxd5 cxd5 15.
Rxh3 Rxh3 16. Bxh3 e6 17. b4 Qc6 18. Qb3 Rc8 19. Ne2 Bd6 20. Ra1 Qb6 21. Nc3
Qd8 22. Bf1 f5 23. Bd3 Qg5 24. Ne2 Rc7 25. Qa4 f4 26. Bxg6 fxe3 27. fxe3 Qh4+
28. Kf1 Qh3+ 29. Ke1 Qh4+ 30. Kf1 fxg6 31. Ng1 Qh2 32. Ndf3 Qb2 33. Re1 a6 34.
Re2 Qb1+ 35. Kg2 Rc1 36. Qa5 Qe4 37. Kf2 Qg4 38. e4 Bg3+ 0-1
  
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Scott Opening
Reply #5 - 12/04/04 at 13:08:42
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I've seen discussions elsewhere that the PT should more correctly be called the Scott Opening after RVM Scott who employed it many moons ago. Certainly seems less ugly than "Pseudo"!

Regards, John Upham
  
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Re: Pseudo-Tromp
Reply #4 - 07/22/04 at 03:49:42
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White has to play 7.Nf3 (3...h6 the bishop is on h4) with the idea Nd4.

Well this idea of sacrificing the pawn with 5...e5 looks very interesting anyway. I hope I will face it in one of my games til the end of august !
And if not myself, Hamdouchi, maybe who has been seduced by the idea as I saw in Tripoli... Smiley

Then, I will be able to come back with a reliable estimation in september.
  
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Re: Pseudo-Tromp
Reply #3 - 07/20/04 at 22:06:12
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I met 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 c6 3.a3 Qb6 4.Ra2 e5 in a blitz game, as well, but my opponent followed up with 5.dxe5 Be6!? when the lurking discovered attack on the Ra2 was bothersome.

I don't care for the looks of positions after 5.dxe5, but if White must play 5.e3, I'm not sure he has even full equality anymore.
  
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Re: Pseudo-Tromp
Reply #2 - 06/02/04 at 12:56:53
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Thank you very much, Eric, for your reply and for the excellent April update on this topic. Since January I took up your idea with a3 and play it regularly in blitz and rapid games (though I am still waiting a serious game to give it a try). I agree with your attitude towards these lines. White should not expect any big advantage, but they play their game, and Black is rarely well prepared in these lines. 

I would like to share with you one Black idea that you didn't analyze in your notes. I have played two games with it and was not satisfied with resulting positions for White. In the line 2... h6 3.Bh4 c6 4.e3 Qb6 5.Qc1 Black gets a good play after 5...e5! Surprisingly, it seems that it is possible in a3 lines as well:

1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 h6 3.Bh4 c6 4.a3 Qb6 5.Ra2 e5!? White has to take 6.dxe5 and then 6...Ne7. 

Black is going to play ...Nf5 to take the dark-squared bishop (immediately or later), and then they will try to attack the e5-pawn (with any of the moves ...Nd7, Qc7, then eventually with the rook on e8, and if White play Nf3 early, Black has ...Bg4 before ...Nd7 as well). If they are successful (and it is difficult for White to protect it), they will have two bishops and the advantage in the center. And White should still spend some time to get the rook on a2 to the game! That's what happened in the first game I played.

In the second I gave up my bishop right away and tried to hold on to the pawn e5:
7.Bxe7 Bxe7 8.e3 (8.Nf3 Bg4) Nd7 9.Nf3 Qc7 10.Qd4 (10.c4 dxc4 11.e6 fxe6 12.Bxc4 Ne5 is more or less equal, the pawn e6 is not really weak, and Black has two Bishops)

But then Black plays simply 10...Bc5 11.Qc3 0-0 12.Bd3 Bb6 (12...Re8 13.Bf5) with ...Re8 coming. 

I analyzed this line for a while and it seems absolutely playable for Black. I looked even at 7.f4 (looks ugly but could be interesting if White could rapidly follow with e4) but couldn't get a satisfying line. 

All this is a problem since in this line the rook a2 looks absolutely stupid, and the logic of the White opening is broken. Maybe, it will be interesting for you and others to look at 5...e5!? I hope we can find a good plan against this continuation.

Alexei
  
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GMEricPrie
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Re: Pseudo-Tromp
Reply #1 - 02/17/04 at 13:28:08
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Hello, Aleksey ?

Back from the Aosta tournament yesterday, I just installed the ADSL this morning in order to be more present,  on this forum... in the future.

Indeed, I am very busy at the moment and I am starting another tournament at the end of the week, but to answer your question. the idea behind the move 3.a3, is basically , by analogy to the a6 slav, to be able to "Morozevichly" protect the b2 pawn with Ra2 after Qb6.
Then White will be able to play c2-c4, which he could (should?) have done on his second move, with the hope of finding himself in a position to profit from the opposing queen's situation to launch a queenside pawn surge with c4-c5 and b2-b4.
This worked out very finely in the game you allude to, but quite poorly against stronger opposition in Aosta when I committed the mistake of exchanging my black squared bishop against Mihail Gurevich who, after the game was over, had this great line : "When I saw Ra2, I began to understand I had to be cautious"
It also has the side feature to control the b4 square of which the advantage is obvious, for instance, in the line 2... h6 (probably more precise than 2...c6) 3.Bh4 c6 4. e3 Qb6 5.Qc1 e5!
Anyway, you did point out the main problem of the main line of the Levitsky and the reason why it will never gain as much popularity as the Tromp. As a matter of fact, it is more of a general concern, as the d pawn special player feels somewhat "disarmed", as White, when facing Black's best response: 1...d5 Smiley
Since I am reluctant, to give up my dear pawns without a fight, there is also another idea with 3.c3 when Qb6 is now wrong due to 4.Qc2 as Bf5 is now just a terrible blunder because the queen can simply take, threatening Qc8 mate. But that does not solve the question of finding anything "enterprising" to do against 3...Bf5 or 3...h6 and the plan e6, Be7, Nd7, Nf6... 
  
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