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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Berlin (Read 34528 times)
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Re: Berlin
Reply #47 - 01/31/06 at 17:23:28
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Quality Chess is publishing "The Berlin Wall" by Aagaard and Lund soon (spring 2006). 208 pages.
  

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kylemeister
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Re: Berlin
Reply #46 - 11/13/05 at 01:29:04
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Is there any article that explains the nuances in the Berlin? Most works point out general features such as the pawn on e5 leaving f5 and d5 unprotected and Black's 2 bishops but don't go into details.  When do you play h6 or a5, re-route the N on f5 to e7 and g6, play c5 etc. While Khalifman does provide some pointers, these are mainly for white. Even Flear in his book on offbeat Spanish does not explain Black's ideas and when it is apprpriate to play these moves. I had a look at some of Bacrot's games where he plays Ne7 instead of the more common Ke8 or Bdr or h6. Can anyone explain the Berlin?


You might want to take a look at The Chess Advantage in Black and White, by (US international master) Larry Kaufman.  It recommends the Berlin for Black, and the relevant section of the book was written with the collaboration of Alex Sherzer, a US grandmaster who has played it for many years.
  
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Re: Berlin
Reply #45 - 11/12/05 at 23:57:40
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Is there any article that explains the nuances in the Berlin? Most works point out general features such as the pawn on e5 leaving f5 and d5 unprotected and Black's 2 bishops but don't go into details.  When do you play h6 or a5, re-route the N on f5 to e7 and g6, play c5 etc. While Khalifman does provide some pointers, these are mainly for white. Even Flear in his book on offbeat Spanish does not explain Black's ideas and when it is apprpriate to play these moves. I had a look at some of Bacrot's games where he plays Ne7 instead of the more common Ke8 or Bdr or h6. Can anyone explain the Berlin?
  
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lnn2
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Re: Berlin
Reply #44 - 05/23/05 at 09:05:25
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Being a solid type (c-k/rubinstein french), the Berlin interests me greatly as well, and I also read Short's comments in NIC with great interest. But a cynical part of me feels he was really trying to discourage people from taking up the berlin  Grin

It is also quite baffling that such a natural move as 3.... Nf6 is only in fashion in recent years. ???
  
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Re: Berlin
Reply #43 - 05/22/05 at 20:28:05
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Since when has the Marshall become worse than the Berlin ? Grin

I am sure Adams, Nunn, Anand, Sokolov and a whole host of other top Grandmasters would disagree with you there.

In fact it now seems that White's best option is to avoid the Marshall altogether.

Top  Grin
  

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The Berlin
Reply #42 - 05/22/05 at 19:55:48
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The problem with that quote about the Berlin is this:
  the alternatives for Bl (the Open, the Chigorin, the Marshall) are worse than the Berlin for Black, at the current state of theory.
   That is why top Black players play the Berlin: you hardly ever see anything else for Black And the proof is in the pudding. The Berlin is extremely difficult to crack.
  White does have an edge, but it's no more or less than in any other major opening at this point of the game.
   And Black has long-term compensation in the white-squared B.
   I regularly play the Berlin against top rated ICCF opponents. My results with the Berlin have been greatly superior to those with any other major line in the Ruy for Black.
  
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Markovich
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Re: Berlin
Reply #41 - 05/22/05 at 13:00:31
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The Open Ruy is under big pressure these days in the line:
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Nxe4 6.d4 b5 7.Bb3 d5 8.dxe5 Be6 9.Be3!  Grin

Any revival will have to address the problems posed there.

Top Grin


Thanks for that info.  Dear me, yet more "big pressure" against the Open.  No sooner is 9. Nbd2 dealt with (seemingly so, anyway) than this pops up.
  

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ranjk
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Re: Berlin
Reply #40 - 05/22/05 at 11:09:46
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I just like to quote Nigel Short on the Berlin endgame:

"Here we are at the starting point of the Berlin proper. There are some strong 1.e4 players, fearful of the two bishops and fretful that the e-pawn has crossed a bridge too far, who believe that this position is equal. Nevertheless, Vladimir Kramnik, the world's greatest expert on this opening, informed me - perhaps it was in Bahrain - that White definitely has the edge. I concur with the sage's assessment, as, I might add, does Michael Adams. Indeed, with better development, a superior pawn structure and Black's king awkwardly placed stuck in the centre, why should it not be so? The black position is simply not easy to handle, as Garry Kasparov - a man who has invested not a few hours in analysing the Berlin - discovered to his cost against Judit Polgar. Interestingly, Peter Leko - someone renowned for his excellent defensive technique - confided to me that he had also tried with black in a few trainning games, but with poor results. There are, of course, people who have subtle appreciation of the Berlin's nuance; Alexey Alexandrov and Zoltan Almasi spring to mind. However, it is certainly not everyone's cup of tea."

You can find this at NiC 2005/02, pages 37-38.

The big guys don't think too highly of this defense. Personally I find the Berlin only suited for the masochist...
  
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Re: Berlin
Reply #39 - 05/21/05 at 19:02:04
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The Open Ruy is under big pressure these days in the line:
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Nxe4 6.d4 b5 7.Bb3 d5 8.dxe5 Be6 9.Be3!  Grin

Any revival will have to address the problems posed there.

Top Grin
  

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Markovich
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Re: Berlin
Reply #38 - 05/21/05 at 17:43:31
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On 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 Nf6 4 O-O Nxe4 5 d4 , Black is not compelled to play Nd6 : he can play 5...a6 , going back to Open variation ( else , White has no better)
This is recommanded  by Kevin O'Connel in his book


Yes, I played the Open for many years, and this is how I always reached it.  At the time the stock of the Exchange stood rather high, and this way you can reach the Open without encountering that system.  More recently, trying to find something new against the Berlin, some people have been looking more closely at 5. Re1.  This was supposed to lead to pretty easy equality for Black, but apparently there is some doubt being cast on that.

Personally I have little taste for the "Berlin Endgame."  I am impressed by White's activity.  We could quibble over terminology, but it's not really an endgame, is it?

I would like to reply to one aspect of the orgininal post: its generalizations about what sort of players play the Spanish and what sort of systems they're likely to be comfortable with.  I see this kind of reasoning on this forum a lot, and elsewhere too, but I think it's a big mistake to design your repertoire based on the supposed strengths and weaknesses of people who play given systems.  It would be much better to design it based on your own strengths and weaknesses.   

Just to come back to the Open, my impression is that it's stock is up since Ponomariov demonstrated Black's good chances in that piece-down endgame that arises from 9. Nbd2 Nc5  10. c3 d5  11. Ng5 Qxg5 and so forth.  Is anyone aware of anything that would call into question an "=" evaluation of that particular endgame?  A little while ago I played a cc game (on net-chess) with the Black pieces against a ICCF 2400+ opponent, but it proved nothing since we both just followed the moves of the Ponomariov game until a the very last, and a draw was straightforwardly obtained.

I do think that if Black's is solid after 9. Nbd2, the stage may be set for an Open Defense revival.
  

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TopNotch
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Re: Berlin
Reply #37 - 05/21/05 at 13:24:50
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Did I not mention three others earlier in this thread. Grin

Top  Grin
  

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Re: Berlin
Reply #36 - 05/21/05 at 06:52:19
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This thread made me spend hard earned money. Cry I all along played only French but I just ordered Kaufman's "Chess Advantage in Black and White". I hope I will  Grin after I go thro' the book.

BTW, are there other good books on Berlin?
  

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Re: Berlin
Reply #35 - 04/21/05 at 19:17:53
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If Garri couldn't do it, it's doubtful if anyone here can...  ???

I was wondering if some of you have any idea why Kasparov seemed to be so uncombative during the BG match against Kramnik?

It seems he had some good and promising positions right at the end of the openig in a few games, but he seemed not to try to take any advantage of it ?!

His fighting spirit only seemed to resurface again hen he was Black, as if he dreamed of turning the tides with Black so as to make an impressive comeback during the match ?!

What are your opinions about that ?

Thanks
  
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Re: Berlin
Reply #34 - 04/21/05 at 16:33:40
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I hope this post proved useful, and remember the Ruy Lopez is still by far the most pomisng 1e4 e5 Opening for White.
Top  Grin  

Hello Wink
Yes, very useful, thanks a lot.
Cheers
  
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Re: Berlin
Reply #33 - 04/21/05 at 16:25:04
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Top Notch, I am surprised you still recommend that line. In my view, it is worth a surprise, as obviously Nielsen and other very strong grandmasters have suffered, but after learning the c6 + Ne8 plan white gets absolutely nothing.

I currently believe it is a question of studying the nuances of the Berlin endgame. Black chances are not that great to win, so it must be boring to try that line over and over...

Hi Wink
Yes, boring maybe, but if a Black player decides to play for a draw, and likes this type of maneuvering game, and is patient and resilient, I find it extremely difficult for White to get any dangerous initiative...

I'm no expert at Chess, just an enthusiastic amateur, but I launched a few chess playing programs on the Berlin endgame line, in 'shootout' mode (i.e. when one engine goes on to play against itself until the end), and the result is always the same: White seems to get an advantage, perhaps even a two pawns advantage, but then the resulting 'catch-as-catch-can endgame' finish is drawn by Black's compensating activity... resulting in a levelling of the material.

I hope I'll come back often on this forum which I discovered by chance today, 'googling' on Berlin Endgame...

Cheers Wink
  
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