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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Berlin (Read 34512 times)
Peter Kitchen
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Re: Berlin
Reply #17 - 05/06/04 at 03:59:08
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I can vouch for that. I have always played the Ruy Lopez as white and never faced the Berlin. While it was a useful weapon for Kramnik against Garry K, I think that only certain types of players are ever likely to use it, and perhaps only then for surprise value.
  
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alumbrado
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Re: Berlin
Reply #16 - 05/06/04 at 03:31:03
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The Berlin's star has begun to wane again.  The point about the Berlin endgame is that Kramnik intended it as a drawing weapon for a specific match - it is very resilient and resisted Kasparov's attempts to break it down during the match.  But there is no doubt that White has a slight advantage and can put Black under some serious pressure.

True, if White plays inaccurately, Black's bishops can sometimes generate some winning chances for Black, but I suspect that as time goes on we will see more and more White players getting to grips with the subtleties and notching up points against Black players who think their position is better than it really is.
  

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Billy_Cember
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Re: Berlin
Reply #15 - 05/05/04 at 16:18:55
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Well, what I meant was that if White's winning chances were as bad as they seem here, then it would be played more at gm level. Maybe I'm missing something.
  
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AmateurDragoneer
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Re: Berlin
Reply #14 - 05/04/04 at 18:39:23
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Quote:
I think seriously that if the Berlin was really that great that White couldn't gain a slight advantage, it would be played more often.


I really don't think White's chances are that great in the ending. However, neither are black's! (Yes, I know the famous Kasparov-Kramnik gave). If black knows the endgame really well and is comfortable with it, he can try it out but most black players do not want to play an opening that lands them with an opening which is (at best) equal after less than 20 moves.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Berlin
Reply #13 - 05/04/04 at 18:34:58
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The reason why the Berlin is not more popular is simply that the resulting endgames are not everyone's cup of tea, especially at club level.  Grin

I agree with Glen that the 4.0-0 Nxe4 5.Re1 Nd6 6.Nxe5 is a very interesting try for advantage, particularly below GM level. This line is a favorite of the reknowned Soviet GM and theortician Leonid Shamkovich and one could do a lot worse than studying his games in this variation. There is also a book entitled ' The Chess Terrorist's Handbook' by Shamkovich himself where he lays out in detail the subtleties  of this attacking line vs the Berlin. Highly recommended. 

In more recent times the potency of  4.0-0 Nxe4 5.Re1 Nd6 6.Nxe5 was confirmed when GM Luke Mcshane used the line to crush feared theortician GM Peter Heine Nielsen in a blistering attacking game. There is no doubt that this little known and somewhat underestimated line has the potential to be a terrific point scorer at all levels.

Happy hunting

Top  Grin
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Billy_Cember
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Re: Berlin
Reply #12 - 05/04/04 at 17:11:36
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lol  Cheesy

I think seriously that if the Berlin was really that great that White couldn't gain a slight advantage, it would be played more often.
  
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never1b4
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Re: Berlin
Reply #11 - 05/04/04 at 11:40:04
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Sure! He has a pawn more. Cheesy
  
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MNb
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Re: Berlin
Reply #10 - 05/04/04 at 05:47:10
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Does the Berlin really offer more chances to White than say the King's Gambit?
  

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Wonderer
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Re: Berlin
Reply #9 - 05/03/04 at 16:21:44
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Hot off the press  Cheesy

check out the following two games from the Sigeman tournament, deFirmian-Nielsen (a wonderful game from the dane) if you like black and Rozentalis-Aagaard if you like white...

http://www.ksu.dk/sigeman/vispartier.asp?id=3&runde=4
  
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Peter Kitchen
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Re: Berlin
Reply #8 - 05/03/04 at 10:58:36
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I can't believe that 4.Nc3 (Spanish Four Knights) can lead to an advantage for white. Emms covers it in his 'Play the Open Games as Black': I'll try getting some lines up soon.
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Berlin
Reply #7 - 05/02/04 at 13:13:31
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In his recent book, Kaufman recommends 4.0-0 Nxe4 5.Re1 Nd6 6.Nxe5, which he believes leads to a very slight advantage for White.  He also states, "since the bishop looks better on c4, it seems to me that anyone who would play 4.d3 against the Berlin should just play the Italian game instead of the Spanish".  Perhaps he's wrong.  Are there any advantages to having the bishop on b5 in these postions (or is there at least little difference)?
« Last Edit: 05/03/04 at 12:56:22 by Glenn Snow »  
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AmateurDragoneer
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Re: Berlin
Reply #6 - 05/02/04 at 10:01:09
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In the lat few months, I've actually reinvestigated 4. d3 and find it to be very satisfactory for white. Effectively White will buiild up with c3, O-O, etc. and eventually play d4. What usually happens is that black plays d6 at one point or another and white can make a favorable transposition to a line of the Steinitz defense.
  
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alumbrado
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Re: Berlin
Reply #5 - 02/26/04 at 19:23:46
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I agree with all this, but it is worth noting that 4.d3 was Short's choice recently ...
  

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Re: Berlin
Reply #4 - 02/26/04 at 18:00:47
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4. Nc3 is a variation of the Four Knights Defense (often labeled as the "Spanish Four Knights) while 4. d4 looks like it could be a Scotch or maybe even a 3. d4 Petroff! 4. d3 is the "quiet" handling of the position which, though solid, is not active enough for White if he wants to try and seize the initiative. Instead, why not 4. Qe2 which is kind of an "accelerated" worrall attack. (the line can transpose into a regular Worrall Attack, which is certainly not boring!) Nigel Short played the Worrall twice in his 1992 candidates match against Karpov. He won both games. Interestingly enough, Karpov has a whopping 16.7% score against the Worrall (two losses to Short in 1992 and a draw from 1969 World U20 championships) Tiviakov seems to favor this line against the Berlin and has scored 5/8 with it (+3 =4 -1) including draws against Ivanchuk and Khalifman so it certainly can't be a horrible line!

The only reason I can see for playing 4. O-O is if A) you know your opponent won't enter the "Berlin Endgame" or B) you are an endgame afficionado.
  
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Wonderer
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Re: Berlin
Reply #3 - 02/25/04 at 07:40:55
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If Garri couldn't do it, it's doubtful if anyone here can...  ???

Luckily, there's nothing quite as boring after 2.f4! Cheesy
  
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