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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Andrew Martin's New Book is out now (Read 16680 times)
Gunter
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Re: Andrew Martin's New Book is out now
Reply #13 - 03/23/04 at 03:40:15
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  Great book. The so-called critics didn't read it.
  
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Normal player
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Re: Andrew Martin's New Book is out now
Reply #12 - 03/19/04 at 14:09:40
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  As Martin states in the introduction,this is a book of ideas,not an exhaustive theoretical survey. I respect all other posts on this topic and I see where Krugman is coming from, however when I need an idea for a game,I shall come to this book,not to the soulless Chessbase or to the encyclopaedia of chess openings.
  
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krugman
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Re: Andrew Martin's New Book is out now
Reply #11 - 03/18/04 at 08:21:19
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well, as for the editing, I really don't care....
but I just can't stand the lack of rigor...
and my expectations were really high, I really like Andrew, so my first intention was not to find all that was wrong in the book...but I looked at two of the most important lines in the KID, that is the classical with 10.Be3 and the Bayonet Attack, and I find that the coverage is really sloppy and incoherent...I wonder how a reviewer like John Watson would rate this book...
I agree that there are lots of interesting games, but is that enough???? you can suscribe to chesspub and also have lots of games on the KID...
  
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armchair analyst
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Re: Andrew Martin's New Book is out now
Reply #10 - 03/18/04 at 07:57:00
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  I shall make the point that some people get a kick out of finding things wrong. For instance,somebody has a quick glance at the book and then states that they think it is mess,without playing through a single game or commenting on the chess itself.

  This book for me is a contrast between very good chess and analysis and shoddy editing as others have remarked upon. I hope Krugman and I can agree on that.

  I saw an excerpt from this book in the English magazine CHESS. It was well laid out, had diagrams in all the right places and was a pleasure to read. I believe it was how the author would have wanted it. The same information in the book looks cramped by comparison and is almost without a diagram. It looks like the publisher was trying to save space and has ended up shooting himself in the foot. I don't know why.

  My assessment is you should buy this book for the chess alone,which is very good, but be prepared to accept some layout problems.

  Thank you.
  
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krugman
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Re: Andrew Martin's New Book is out now
Reply #9 - 03/18/04 at 07:26:58
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well, fortunately for Andrew some people don't spot his lack of rigor...
so Armchair analyst, just have a look at game 8 page 372 where you have 13...a6!? now instead of an exclam...moreover I quote : "...I don't believe Blaxk's next move is the best. It's a toss-up between 13...a5!? and the more pointed 13...Rf6..."... so why put an exclam after 13...a6 in game 2 if that's "not the best move" ?????
are different persons analysing the games????
I wonder if the editor really looked at the games....
  
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Armchair analyst
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Re: Andrew Martin's New Book is out now
Reply #8 - 03/17/04 at 13:21:55
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   I have read the book now and I do not understand what Krugman is referring to. In Game 2 E99 Summerscasl-Hebden,  Martin gives 13 a4 a6 an exclam whereas in Summerscale-Black, Game 4 after 13 a4 Black plays 13...Rf6 14 Nb5! a6,which is different. The conclusion is that it is unwise to allow Nb5.

  Critical as well as analytical rigor is also good.

   Grin
  
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alumbrado
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Re: Andrew Martin's New Book is out now
Reply #7 - 03/16/04 at 06:05:39
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I had a quick thumb through the book on a visit to the BCM store the other day and I didn't like what I saw, truth be told.  I think he has probably come under a lot of pressure from publishers to make it 'exciting' somehow, but it just looked a bit of a mess to me.

I emphasise that it was a quick look and there may well be some fine analysis and ideas in there, but personally I prefer something a little bit more systematic.

I think there is a tendency for some to view sloppiness of the sort krugman describes as evidence of creativity or originality.  I am definitely not saying this is the case with Andrew Martin (I still have his old KID repertoire book and I think it is genuinely excellent), but I think this attitude is particularly prevalent among those who play supposedly 'exciting' or 'dynamic' openings like the KID.

I would draw a sharp contrast between Martin's book and, say Sadler's old book on the QGD, which again does not seek to be a systematic variation-by-variation analysis, but nonetheless conveys a lot of useful theoretical information at the same time as imparting all-important understanding of the themes and ideas.

The Martin book reminded me a lot of Pirc Alert to look at, and in fairness I have found that book useful - but  have had to supplement it with the Nunn/McNab Ultimate Pirc, Gallagher's (superb) Starting Out - the Pirc and with the Pirc sections of Explosive Opening Repertoire for Black in order to feel that I am not getting a rather casual assessment of the positions.

So it may well be that Martin's book is valuable on one level - but it will need to be supplemented by either Joe Gallagher's new book (when it appears) or at the very least by his Starting Out - the King's Indian book (which is also very good).
  

If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
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krugman
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Re: Andrew Martin's New Book is out now
Reply #6 - 03/16/04 at 05:46:07
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well, I don't really criticize the erratic part...even though I don't understand why he didn't put all games in the same variation next yo each others...but I criticize the lack of rigor...when you get different assesments of the same variation in two different games, obviously something has gone wrong...one gets the impression that he has annotated each game at different times but without checking what he had already said...it is really disappointing...
as to the ideas, I really do agree!!!
  
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German
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Re: Andrew Martin's New Book is out now
Reply #5 - 03/15/04 at 20:06:54
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  Somehow this book looks as though it was meant to disturb like the last post says,deliberate. It is erratic but very full of ideas.
  
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krugman
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Re: Andrew Martin's New Book is out now
Reply #4 - 03/15/04 at 15:45:41
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I have to admit that I am also a little disappointed...ther are lots of contradictory evaluations in the games : for instance, in the Classical after 10.Be3 and 13.a4 in one game he gives an exclam mark to 13...a6 while 2 games later he says that this is not good and that 13...a4 is better...as Gallagher says in his book...and it is the same thing in the Bayonnet...I find this really disturbing...a good book should be rigourous...
I know it's not an encyclopaedic book, but I would have loved to know what lines are supposed to be best for black...anyway, there are lots of ideas to get in this book!
  
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Kasparov No 1 fan
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Re: Andrew Martin's New Book is out now
Reply #3 - 03/12/04 at 07:26:14
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  Agree completely with kidfan. A sprawling , massive book,full of interest. Academics or theory boffins might not like the book but I'm learning a lot about the King's Indian as I read.

  The first post mentions the ideas feature : he alerts the reader to important moments in the play. What's wrong with that?

  Sounds like the first guy just wants to criticize-he doesn't look for anything good.

  I recommend the book.
  
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kidfan 77
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Re: Andrew Martin's New Book is out now
Reply #2 - 03/12/04 at 02:50:03
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I liked it. As far as I remember Martin quit the KID site in 2002.There is an enormous amount of new info from 2003 and even 2004 so that's as current as you are going to get. Not a rehash.

The book is just different. I don't think that geophys could have read the introduction or he would have understood the philosophy of the book a bit better.

The editing isn't always up to scratch but that's a minor quibble. The chess in the book is fantastic.
  
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Geophys
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Re: Andrew Martin's New Book is out now
Reply #1 - 03/11/04 at 18:00:11
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I'd be interested in hearing what the rest of you think of this book. 

I was disappointed.  Most of the material appears to come whole-cloth from ChessPub without updating the annotations.  For example, in the Glek variation of the Classical KID (early exd) by black, Martin gives the game Atalik-Blehm (1999) calling the move 13 c5 "State of the art."  Gallagher, in Starting Out: The King's Indian (an older book, and presumably aimed at the KID beginner) gives the newer game Piket-Nedev (2001) to show that Black's reply 13...d5! forces a draw with best play by White.  Of course, the ebook on Chesspub is out-of-date too, so I guess I shouldn't pick on Martin.  Undecided

I was bothered more by the feeling that the games were simply pulled from the archives and clustered together without attempted to find a common thread.  In many cases the same IDEA (a label that pops up periodically games to make you feel like a secret is being revealed) is presented is a new thought in several games, not necessary placed sequentially either.

It is not a particularly optimistic book for the KID player either.  What should you play against the Classical, for example.

7...Na6?  "So I will simply say...that Na6 cannot really be a good move and will be proved so in time."

7...Nd7? "Black contents himself with a study position, but not much else."

7...exd followed by Nc6? "At present 9...Nc6 is out of fashion.  I will try to highlight why.

7...Nc6  Maybe the mainline is the way to go?  "Don't ask me to call the Mar Del Plate variation.  I wouldn't venture past the 'NO ENTRY' sign."

Not very inspiring.

If you simply want to play through a lot of annotated KID games and hunt for ideas the book is not too bad, but I would treat it as a bound version of a dump of annotated games from Chesspub.  If you subscribe here then I definately wouldn't buy the CD too.
  
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IronMarshal
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Andrew Martin's New Book is out now
02/25/04 at 19:48:16
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Andrew Martin's new book Battle Plans in the King's Indian is in stock and available through Chessco. com

www.chessco.com/shownews.php?show=1077578197

I hope it is available through Barnes and Noble soon, as I have a gift certificate to use there.  Grin
  
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