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Normal Topic Caro-Kann Smyslov 10 ... Qc7 (Read 5866 times)
HgMan
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Re: Caro-Kann Smyslov 10 ... Qc7
Reply #9 - 04/29/06 at 21:47:34
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tracke wrote on 02/01/05 at 09:46:41:
With 12...g5 refuted black players of 4...Nd7 must go back to 12...Kf8 . This is generally assessed as slighty better for White but should be playable.

The year 2004 showed 12...Kf8 13.b3 Bb7 14.Bb2 Nf6 15.Qh4 c5! 16.dxc5 Qxc5 as mainline (I can´t believe in Galkin´s 15...Nd5?!). Now White has played 17.Bxf6 or 17.Bd4 and while these moves scored very well in Leko-Bologan, Ganguly-Speelman and Nataf-LeRoux, Black still seems to have good and reasonable chances for a draw (this is at least my last theoretical information). For this reason GM Bezgodov rejected 17.Bxf6 and 17.Bd4 as insufficient (in the meaning of searching for a clear white advantage, confer: Khalifman´s Anand3 page 192) and proposed 17.Nd4!? (what hasn´t been played yet) with some analysis and white advantage.


Galkin seems to have persisted in responding to 12 Qg4 with 12 ... Kf8.  Witness:

[Site "Kusadasi"]
[Date "2006.04.04"]
[White "Petrosian,Tigran L"]
[Black "Galkin,Alexander"]

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nd7 5.Ng5 Ngf6 6.Bd3 e6 7.N1f3 Bd6 8.Qe2 h6 
9.Ne4 Nxe4 10.Qxe4 Qc7 11.0-0 b6 12.Qg4 Kf8 13.Re1 Bb7 14.c3 c5 15.Qh3 Rd8 16.Kh1 Nf6 17.Bd2 Kg8 18.Rad1 Bd5 19.b3 Qb7 20.Be3 Bxf3 21.gxf3 Kf8 22.Bc4 Qc7 23.Rg1 Be7 24.Qg3 Qxg3 25.fxg3 cxd4 26.Bxd4 g6 27.Rd3 Kg7 28.Rgd1 Rhf8 29.Kg2 Kg8 30.Kf1 h5 31.Ke2 h4 32.a4 hxg3 33.hxg3 Nh5 34.Bf2 Rxd3 35.Rxd3 Rd8 36.Ba6 Kf8 37.Rxd8+ Bxd8 38.Kd3 Nf6 39.Kc4 Ne8 40.b4 Ke7 41.Kb3 e5 42.c4 e4 43.Bb7 exf3 44.Bxf3 Kd7 45.Bd5 f5 46.b5 Nf6 47.Bc6+ Kc8 48.a5 Nd7 49.Bxd7+ Kxd7 50.a6 Kc8 51.Kc3 Bf6+ 52.Bd4 Bxd4+ 53.Kxd4 g5 54.Ke5 f4 55.gxf4 gxf4 56.Ke4 Kb8 57.Kxf4 Ka8 58.Ke5 Kb8 59.Kd6 Ka8 60.Kc7  1/2

But 13 b3 looks like the sterner test.  Instead of Galkin's 2004 move, 15 ... Nd5?! (I share Tracke's distaste for that move), 15 ... c5 looks more consistent with similar Caro-Kann lines and received a rather recent outing (below), though it followed 17 Bxf6, which Tracke thought was okay for Black.  Still no sign of Bezgodov's 17 Nd4!?; has someone uncovered a flaw in Khalifman's analysis?


[Site "Kusadasi"]
[Date "2006.04.04"]
[White "Bindrich,Falko"]
[Black "Erenburg,Sergey"]

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nd7 5.Ng5 Ngf6 6.Bd3 e6 7.N1f3 Bd6 8.Qe2 h6 
9.Ne4 Nxe4 10.Qxe4 Qc7 11.0-0 b6 12.Qg4 Kf8 13.b3 Bb7 14.Bb2 Nf6 15.Qh4 c5 16.dxc5 Qxc5 17.Bxf6 gxf6 18.Be4 Bxe4 19.Qxe4 Kg7 20.Rad1 Rad8 21.c4 Be7 22.Qb7 a5 23.Nd4 Rxd4 24.Rxd4 Qxd4 25.Qxe7 Rd8 26.Qc7 Rd6 27.Qb7 h5 28.Qf3 h4 29.h3 f5 30.Qb7 e5 31.Qf3 Qe4 32.Qc3 Rd3 33.Qc2 Qd4 34.Qe2 Kg6 35.Qc2 Rd2 36.Qb1 e4 37.b4 Rb2 38.Qc1 axb4 39.Qf4 Rxa2 40.Qxh4 Ra1 41.Qg3+ Kf6 42.Qh4+ Ke6 43.Qh6+ f6 44.Rxa1 Qxa1+ 45.Kh2 Qe5+ 46.g3 Qd4 47.Kg2 Qxc4 48.Qf8 Qc5 49.Qe8+ Kd6 50.Qf7 Ke5 51.h4 e3 52.Qe8+ Kd6 53.Qd8+ Kc6 54.Qe8+ Kb7 55.fxe3 Qc2+ 56.Kg1 Qd1+ 
57.Kf2 b3 58.Qf7+ Ka6 59.h5 Qc2+ 60.Kf3 b2 61.Qa2+ Kb5 62.Qd5+ Kb4 63.Qd6+ Qc5 64.Qd3 Qc4 65.Qd6+ Kb3 66.Qd1+ Ka2 0-1


  
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Re: Caro-Kann Smyslov 10 ... Qc7
Reply #8 - 03/25/06 at 20:36:10
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1 e4 c6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 dxe4 4 Nxe4 Nd7 5 Ng5 Ngf6 6 Bd3 e6 7 N1f3 Bd6 8 Qe2 h6  
9 Ne4 Nxe4 10 Qxe4 Qc7 11 0-0 c5 12 Re1 a6

I'm still having some trouble with this line.  I can't help thinking that White can find a critical improvement and crash through Black's lines.

Galkin's 13 a4 Nf6 14 Qh4 cxd4 15 Nxd4 Kf8 doesn't look particularly harmful, but can White manufacture something with:

13 c4 Nf6 14 Qh4 cxd4 15 Nxd4 Kf8 16 b3  

My first feeling is that the pawn on c4 is misplaced after 14 ... cxd4, and Black gets some counterplay with 16 ... Bb4 17 Rd1 e5  But long term, I like White's bishops bearing down on Black's king; as with a number of French lines, Black has buried his king's rook alive; and White hasn't any significant structural weaknesses for Black to target.

That said, Black doesn't look terrible, either.  Try: 18 Ne2 Be6 19 Bb2 Rd8 and Black looks as though s/he has solved most of his/her problems.  Can anyone point to improvements for either side?
  
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Re: Caro-Kann Smyslov 10 ... Qc7
Reply #7 - 03/19/06 at 19:03:01
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Quote:
After, 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Nd7 5. Ng5 Ngf6 6. Bd3 e6 7. N1f3 Bd6 8. Qe2 h6 9. Ne4 Nxe4 10. Qxe4 Qc7 11. O-O b6 12. Qg4


12 ... Kf8 looks like the way to go here, and Black seems to do reasonably well, but is there any reason why Black can't play 11 ... c5 instead?  12 Qg4 Kf8 13 b3 e5 looks pretty good for Black, though I suppose the bigger challenge is 12 Re1.  Podgaets responded 12 ... a6, and looked okay.  But what is the current status of ... c5 ?  I'm not convinced that Black has the time or the luxury to play ... b6 first...


[Site "Ohrid"]
[Date "2001.06.01"]
[White "Galkin,Alexander"]
[Black "Podgaets,Mikhail"]

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nd7 5.Ng5 Ngf6 6.Bd3 e6 7.N1f3 Bd6 8.Qe2 h6 
9.Ne4 Nxe4 10.Qxe4 Qc7 11.0-0 c5 12.Re1 a6 13.a4 Nf6 14.Qh4 cxd4 15.Nxd4 Kf8 16.Bd2 Bd7 17.c4 Be7 18.Qg3 Qxg3 19.hxg3 a5 20.Reb1 Bc5 21.Nb3 Bb6 22.c5 Bc7 23.Nd4 Nd5 24.Nb5 Be5 25.Ra3 Ke7 26.Rb3 Bc6 27.Re1 Bf6 28.Nd6  1/2

  
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Re: Caro-Kann Smyslov 10 ... Qc7
Reply #6 - 11/05/05 at 21:25:56
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Unlike the Forum c-k guru Tracke (where are you?!),  I rather like Galkin's 15... Nd5. I think there is a hole in line given in Anand3 (page 194): 16. Rfe1 Nf4 17. Rad1 Qd8! = and the rest of that section is useless Smiley Opinions please.
  
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Re: Caro-Kann Smyslov 10 ... Qc7
Reply #5 - 02/01/05 at 10:45:07
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I have come to the realisation that if I am to study so much just to draw, I might as well study the sicilian where I can play for a win!

Nowadays, if I still play the Caro, I like this rare line: 

[Event "Japfa Classic"]
[Site "Bali"]
[Date "2000.04.22"]
[Round "8"]
[White "Polgar,Judit"]
[Black "Seirawan,Yasser"]
[Result "1/2"]
[Eco "B17"]
1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nd7 5.Ng5 e6 6.Bd3 Be7 7.N1f3 h6 8.Ne4 Ngf6 
9.Nxf6+ Bxf6 10.0-0 b6 11.Bf4 Bb7 12.Be4 Qc8 13.Qe2 0-0 14.c4 c5 15.d5 exd5 16.Bxd5 Re8 
17.Qc2 b5 18.Rae1 Rxe1 19.Rxe1 bxc4 20.Bxf7+ Kxf7 21.Qxc4+ Kg6 22.Qd3+ Kf7 23.Qc4+  1/2

This was featured in Gallagher's Starting Out book. Any thoughts?
  
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Re: Caro-Kann Smyslov 10 ... Qc7
Reply #4 - 02/01/05 at 09:46:41
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With 12...g5 refuted black players of 4...Nd7 must go back to 12...Kf8 . This is generally assessed as slighty better for White but should be playable.

The year 2004 showed 12...Kf8 13.b3 Bb7 14.Bb2 Nf6 15.Qh4 c5! 16.dxc5 Qxc5 as mainline (I can´t believe in Galkin´s 15...Nd5?!). Now White has played 17.Bxf6 or 17.Bd4 and while these moves scored very well in Leko-Bologan, Ganguly-Speelman and Nataf-LeRoux, Black still seems to have good and reasonable chances for a draw (this is at least my last theoretical information). For this reason GM Bezgodov rejected 17.Bxf6 and 17.Bd4 as insufficient (in the meaning of searching for a clear white advantage, confer: Khalifman´s Anand3 page 192) and proposed 17.Nd4!? (what hasn´t been played yet) with some analysis and white advantage.
 
While 17.Nd4 is of course a dangerous move I ´m not sure if a prepared black player should really fear it . At least in one line of Bezgodov´s analysis I wouldn´t hesitate to play the black side. I mean: 17.Nd4 Qg5 18.Qh3 Qg4 19. Qxg4 Nxg4 20.Be2! Nf6 21. Rad1 Bc5 22.Bf3 Bxf3 23.Nxf3 Ke7 24.Ne5 Rhc8 25.c4 . Now GM Bezgodov continues with 25...a5 26.a4! Rc7 27.g3 Ne8 28.Kg2 and "a quite typical endgame with some advantage for White".
I do not understand 25...a5(?), maybe my endgame skills are too bad? Why should Black weaken his pawnstructure in that way? Just to wait for a much inferior minor piece ending? - I would propose 25...Rc7 with the idea of Ke8 and a6. Bc5 might retreat to e7/f8 and with b6-b5 Black can get counterplay. Maybe Black can exchange the b-pawns, otherwise he gets the point d5 for his Knight. A single white c-pawn can be strong or weak, I don´t know. White can try a3/b4 or f4/g4/h4 but this creates new weaknesses on both sides. Generally Black should keep all rooks on the board. Maybe White has a microscopical advantage after 25.c4 but C-K players are used to play much worse positions!

tracke  Smiley

  
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HgMan
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Re: Caro-Kann Smyslov 10 ... Qc7
Reply #3 - 11/10/04 at 08:25:23
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Are their any strong earlier deviations that allow the Caro player to avoid Anand's strong continuation (Anand-Bologan, Dortmund 2003)?  I understand that Jon Speelman has stopped using 4...Nd7, because it seems vulnerable.  That would be a shame. Cry
  
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Re: Caro-Kann Smyslov 10 ... Qc7
Reply #2 - 10/13/04 at 10:36:20
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12... g5 is unplayable now in view of 13.Qh3 Rg8 14. Re1!! (Anand-Bologan Dortmund 2003)

The big idea (duh) is to sac the rook on e6: If 14... g4 then 15. Qh6 gf3 16. Re6 fe6 17. Qe6 +-

see New In Chess year book 69 (the one with morozevich on the cover). I think one of the informator columns in chesscafe covered this game too. 

I love playing the Nd7 Caro... but its under lots of trouble theoretically nowadays. But I don't care! I still play it anyway... most of my opponents are rated around 2000-2200 who don't play 100% precisely and they don't seem to know much theory!
  
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Re: Caro-Kann Smyslov 10 ... Qc7
Reply #1 - 10/11/04 at 11:40:04
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my opponent always replay h6 instead of Bd6 i take on e6 do you think this sac is sound i lost after a long end game
  
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Billy_Cember
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Caro-Kann Smyslov 10 ... Qc7
03/14/04 at 11:20:22
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After, 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Nd7 5. Ng5
Ngf6 6. Bd3 e6 7. N1f3 Bd6 8. Qe2 h6 9. Ne4 Nxe4 10. Qxe4 Qc7 11. O-O b6 12. Qg4 

Can Black play 12 ...g5? 

This is given in in Gufeld's book Caro-Kann Smyslov System

  
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