Latest Updates:
Normal Topic 2...e6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Nc6!? (Read 3138 times)
Fernando Semprun
Senior Member
****
Offline


Be nice to others. Life
is to be enjoyed!

Posts: 402
Location: Madrid
Joined: 04/29/03
Gender: Male
Re: 2...e6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Nc6!?
Reply #7 - 06/08/04 at 09:22:01
Post Tools
Alumbrado,

sharing your thoughts about avoiding 3.Bb5, 7.Nd5 AND easier to play for me as I had play 2...e6 since 1980 I had a look at 5...Nc6 to conclude that I could not see a line worth trying. I looked mainly at 8...Qa5 and 8...Bb7 and briefly (since I watched Pablo San Segundo defeat Judith Polgar with it in Madrid) at 8...Ba6.

I rather have my Scheveningen or the newly acquired Dragon... if interested I'll post some moves...

Regards,



Fernando
  

Fernando Semprun
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Billy_Cember
Ex Member


Re: 2...e6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Nc6!?
Reply #6 - 03/21/04 at 12:17:48
Post Tools
As for the first line you mentioned, I think that White has a very slight advantage as besides having a lead in developement and more space, Blacks bishops are doomed to pretty lousy squares (e7 and b7). As for your second line, this is pretty similar to the main line but it deserves further investigation.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1710
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Re: 2...e6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Nc6!?
Reply #5 - 03/21/04 at 11:37:30
Post Tools
After 10.Qf3 Nb4 11.Qc3 a couple of other interesting moves are 11...Nxa2!? 12.Qe3 Qxe3 13.Bxe3 Nb4 14.Kd2 which I originally thought was bad for White but now I'm not sure at all.  Queens have been exchanged and Black has the 2-Bishops, but if White can find a way to utilize his space and better development then he might be better after all.

Perhaps Black should try (after 10.Qf3 Nb4 11.Qc3) 11...Qd4!?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Billy_Cember
Ex Member


Re: 2...e6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Nc6!?
Reply #4 - 03/21/04 at 10:45:22
Post Tools
I also, put on Fritz and 10 ... Nb4 definately looks strongest.

Here's my analysis on the position

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6 5.Nc3 Nf6 6.Nxc6 bxc6 7.e5 Nd5 8.Ne4 Qc7 9.f4 Qb6 10.Qf3 Nb4 11.Qc3 Bb7 [11...Ba6?! 12.Bxa6 Nxa6 13.Be3 Bb4 (13...Qc7 14.a3±) 14.Bxb6 Bxc3+ 15.Nxc3 axb6 16.a3 White has a slight advantage] 12.Nd6+ [12.a3? Qd4 13.Qxd4 (13.Bd3? Nxd3+ 14.cxd3 c5 15.Qxd4 cxd4 16.b4 d6 17.exd6 Rd8 18.Bb2 Bxd6 19.Bxd4 Bxb4+ 20.axb4 Rxd4 21.Rxa7 Rxb4 Black has a slight advantage) 13...Nxc2+ 14.Kd1 Nxd4 Black has a slight advantage] 12...Bxd6 13.exd6 Qd4 14.Qxd4 Nxc2+ 15.Kd1 Nxd4 16.Be3 c5 [16...Nf5 17.Bc5² White has the advantage as Black can't make the freeing move, c5] 17.Rc1 Bd5 [17...Nf5? 18.Bxc5± White is in a good formation for a kingside attack and he can put pressure on the d7 pawn with his light squared bishop.; 17...Rc8? 18.Bxd4 cxd4 19.Rxc8+ Bxc8 20.Bd3± White has an attack coming] 18.Bxd4 cxd4 19.b3= White has a slight pull.

[19.Rc7? Bxa2 20.Bb5 0–0 21.Rxd7 Rfd8 22.Rxd8+ Rxd8 23.d7 f6 Black has an extra pawn and the White pawn can't promote because of the weak a8 h1 diagonal. For example, 24.Ke2 Bd5 25.Kf2 Kf7 26.Rc1 Bb7 27.Rc7 Black is definately winning but it is hard to convert the advantage.] 

Also, another noteworthy alternative is 10 ... Qe2 protecting the c2 pawn.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1710
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Re: 2...e6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Nc6!?
Reply #3 - 03/21/04 at 00:04:59
Post Tools
I put 10.Qf3!? on Fritz and it suggested 10...Nb4.  This move is surprisingly awkward for White.  Black looks to be doing well here to me.  In fact the whole line seems rather loose to me.  I personally don't have a lot of faith in 6.Nxc6 right now which really makes me wonder what value the move order 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 really has.  Perhaps I have underestimated 3...e6 4.Bb5 (4.g3!?) but those should be discussed under the anti-siclian section.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Billy_Cember
Ex Member


Re: 2...e6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Nc6!?
Reply #2 - 03/19/04 at 16:44:40
Post Tools
This isn't necessarily an improvement, but how about 10. Qf3?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1710
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Re: 2...e6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Nc6!?
Reply #1 - 03/19/04 at 09:02:31
Post Tools
You should always bring your laptop with you.  What if this had been a theoretical emergency!   Grin

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6 5.Nc3 Nf6 6.Nxc6 bxc6 7.e5 Nd5 8.Ne4 Qc7 (8...Qa5+!?) 9.f4 Qb6 10.c4 (10.Bd3!?) 10...Bb4+ 11.Ke2 f5 12.Nf2 Ba6 (12...Bc5!? 13.Nd3 Ne3 14.Qb3 Nxf1 15.Qxb6 Bxb6 16.Rxf1 Ba6 17.b3 Rc8!=) 13.Kf3 Ne7 14.Be3 Bc5 15.Bxc5 Qxc4 16.Qd6 Qb6 17.b3 c5 18.Kg3 Bb7 19.Be2 Kf7 20.Rhd1 Rhd8 21.Rd2 Nc8 22.Qxb6 axb6=  Is basically what NCO has on this.  Does White (or Black) have improvements here?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
alumbrado
God Member
*****
Offline


Esse quam videri bonus
malebo

Posts: 1418
Location: London
Joined: 02/17/03
Gender: Male
2...e6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Nc6!?
03/19/04 at 05:04:26
Post Tools
Any views on this line?  It has particular relevance to White players wishing to avoid the Sveshnikov, as well as to Black players seeking to avoid the 3.Bb5 lines, and the slightly dull 7.Nd5 line of the Sveshi.

There is some coverage by Fed on the main Chess Pub site (it is in the Paulsen/Taimanov e-book - obviously it can be reached via a number of move orders including the Taimanov).  It all looks pretty sharp - I am slightly suspicious of White's king sitting on e2, especially when he has yet to develop the Bf1! - and a lot of the games there were played three or four years ago.  Any advances?

I seem to remember a couple of games with Radjabov on the black side recently, but can't track them down at the momentas am on my work PC (my databases are on my laptop).
  

If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo