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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C13: Alekhine-Chatard Attack (Read 27564 times)
TalJechin
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #27 - 08/14/13 at 09:22:52
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chandrashekharkoravi wrote on 08/14/13 at 08:57:15:
Glenn Snow wrote on 03/20/04 at 15:18:02:
S.Pedersen in his "The Main Line French: 3.Nc3" gives, "1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e5 Nfd7 6.h4 Bxg5 7.hxg5 Qxg5 8.Qd3 g6 (8...h5 9.Nf3 Qe7 10.g4 g6 [10...h4!?] 11..gxh5 gxh5 12.Qe3 Nb6 13.0-0-0 Bd7 14.Be2 Nc6 15.Qf4! 0-0-0 16.Rdg1!, Hector-Brynell, Gothenburg 1999.) 9.Nf3 Qe7 10.Qe3 Nc6 11.0-0-0 Nb6 12.Rh6 Bd7 13.Qg5 Qxg5+ 14.Nxg5 Ke7 15.Nxh7 Rac8 16.f4 Nb8 17.Bd3 Na4 18.Nxa4 Bxa4 19.Rdh1 c5 20.dxc5 Rxc5 21.Ng5 ±, Hector-Brynell, Malmö 1993.

8.Qd3 looks good to me.  White appears to have long term compensation.


My Houdini is saying that 12...Nb6 is dubious White will have advantage after Rh6 +/-
what to do if black plays 12...a6 instead of 12...Nb6


I looked at 8.Qd3 a few years ago, and iirc 8...Nf8!? was/is an interesting resource for black, in the long term black seemed able to consolidate the pawn (iirc with Bd7+0-0-0 or even b6, Bb7 & 0-0-0), but it's not impossible that today's engines can find some tangible for white - I haven't looked at it since then...
  
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chandrashekharkoravi
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #26 - 08/14/13 at 08:57:15
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Glenn Snow wrote on 03/20/04 at 15:18:02:
S.Pedersen in his "The Main Line French: 3.Nc3" gives, "1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e5 Nfd7 6.h4 Bxg5 7.hxg5 Qxg5 8.Qd3 g6 (8...h5 9.Nf3 Qe7 10.g4 g6 [10...h4!?] 11..gxh5 gxh5 12.Qe3 Nb6 13.0-0-0 Bd7 14.Be2 Nc6 15.Qf4! 0-0-0 16.Rdg1!, Hector-Brynell, Gothenburg 1999.) 9.Nf3 Qe7 10.Qe3 Nc6 11.0-0-0 Nb6 12.Rh6 Bd7 13.Qg5 Qxg5+ 14.Nxg5 Ke7 15.Nxh7 Rac8 16.f4 Nb8 17.Bd3 Na4 18.Nxa4 Bxa4 19.Rdh1 c5 20.dxc5 Rxc5 21.Ng5 ±, Hector-Brynell, Malmö 1993.

8.Qd3 looks good to me.  White appears to have long term compensation.


My Houdini is saying that 12...Nb6 is dubious White will have advantage after Rh6 +/-
what to do if black plays 12...a6 instead of 12...Nb6
  
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #25 - 06/24/04 at 17:58:00
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Black has better chances with 13...Qxe5

Luiz Roberto Da Costa Junior
  
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #24 - 06/23/04 at 20:14:12
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In 2000, the BCCA [http://www.dbsugden.clara.net/bccaarea.htm] organised a thematic postal tournament to test 6 h4. This was one of the games, which followed Luiz Roberto's analysis up to move 12. I felt I gained an edge, but could make nothing of it. See what you think.

[Event "BCCA selected openings"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2000.09.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Adams, Phil"]
[Black "Hanison, B."]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "C13"]
[PlyCount "51"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Be7 5. e5 Nfd7 6. h4 Bxg5 7. hxg5 Qxg5 8.Nh3 Qe7 9. Nf4 Nc6 10. Qg4 Nxd4 11. O-O-O Nf5 12. Nfxd5 exd5 13. Nxd5 Nxe5 14.Qa4+ Bd7 15. Bb5 Qd6 16. Bxd7+ Nxd7 17. Nb6 Qxb6 18. Qxd7+ Kf8 19. Qxf5 Qe6 20.Qxe6 fxe6 21. Rd7 Re8 22. Rxc7 Re7 23. Rc8+ Re8 24. Rc5 Kf7 25. Rd1 Re7 26. Rd3 1/2-1/2

  
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #23 - 06/23/04 at 14:15:06
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KingDan requested and I publish my analysis in pgn format.

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2004.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "French (C13)"]
[Black "Alekhine-Chatard Attack"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C13"]
[Annotator "Da Costa Júnior, L."]
[PlyCount "42"]
[EventDate "2004.??.??"]

{I think the move order 8.Nh3 9.Qg4 10.Nf4 instead of 8.Nh3 9.Nf4 10.Qg4 in
Alekhine-Chatard Attack should be discussed because black may take the pawn in
d4} 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Be7 5. e5 Nfd7 6. h4 Bxg5 7. hxg5 Qxg5
8. Nh3 Qe7 9. Nf4 ({I prefer this move order} 9. Qg4 g6 10. Nf4 Nc6 11. O-O-O
h5 12. Qf3 Nb6 13. g4 h4 $11) 9... Nc6 10. Qg4 (10. Qd2 $5 {/\ 0-0-0}) 10...
Nxd4 $1 {
[Now there is a complex main line and it's not clear if white might equal]} 11.
O-O-O (11. Qxg7 Qf8 12. Qxf8+ Kxf8 13. O-O-O c5 $15) 11... Nf5 12. Nfxd5 (12.
Ncxd5 exd5 13. Nxd5 {it is the same position -  see move 13.Nxd5}) 12... exd5
13. Nxd5 (13. Qxf5 c6 $15) 13... Qxe5 14. Bb5 (14. f4 Nf6 $1 15. fxe5 (15. Bb5+
c6 $1 16. Qf3 Qxd5 $1 17. Rxd5 Nxd5 18. Qxd5 O-O $1 $17) 15... Nxg4 16. Nxc7+
Ke7 $1 17. Nxa8 (17. Nd5+ Kd8 $1 18. Nb6+ (18. Ne3+ Kc7 $1 19. Nxg4 Ng3 $1 $17)
(18. Nf6+ Kc7 $1 19. Nxg4 Ng3 $1 $17) 18... Kc7 $1 19. Nxa8+ Kb8 $1 $17) 17...
Nf2 18. Bb5 (18. Bd3 Ne3 $1 $17) 18... Ne3 $1 $17) 14... O-O $1 15. Bxd7 ({
May be better} 15. f4 Qe6 $1 16. Qh3 (16. Qxf5 Qxf5 17. Ne7+ Kh8 18. Nxf5 Nf6
$1 $15) 16... Nh6 $1 17. f5 (17. Qxe6 fxe6 18. Nxc7 Nb6 $1 19. Nxa8 Nxa8 20. g3
Nf5 $1 $17) 17... Qd6 $1 18. Qh4 (18. Ne3 Qe7 $17) 18... Nf6 $1 (18... f6 19.
Qc4 $1 $13) 19. Nxf6+ Qxf6 20. Qxf6 gxf6 21. Rxh6 Bxf5 22. Rxf6 Bg4 $5 $15)
15... Bxd7 $1 (15... Nh6 $6 {- 52/280}) 16. Qh5 $8 f6 $1 17. f4 (17. Qxh7+ $2
Kf7 18. f4 (18. Qh5+ g6 $1 19. Qh7+ Ng7 $8 20. Nb6 (20. f4 Qf5 $1 $19) 20...
Bg4 $1 21. Nxa8 Bxd1 22. Rxd1 Qf5 $1 $19 {>< Na8}) 18... Qe2 $1 19. Rhe1 Qxd1+
$1 20. Rxd1 Rh8 21. Nxc7 Be6 $1 22. g4 $8 Rxh7 23. gxf5 Bxf5 24. Nxa8 Rh2 $17 (
24... Rh4 $17)) 17... Qe6 $1 (17... Qd6 18. Qxh7+ (18. Nxf6+ $2 Qxf6 19. Qxh7+
Kf7 20. Rxd7+ Ke6 21. Rd2 Nd6 $19) 18... Kf7 19. Qh5+ g6 $5 (19... Kg8 20. Qh7+
Kf7 $11) 20. Qh7+ Ng7 $8 21. Rh6 $1 Bf5 $8 22. g4 Be4 $5 (22... Rh8 23. gxf5
Rxh7 24. fxg6+ Kf8 (24... Ke6) 25. gxh7 Kf7 26. h8=Q Rxh8 27. Rxh8 c6 28. Nc3
Qxf4+ 29. Kb1 f5 30. Rhd8 $11) 23. f5 $8 Bxd5 24. fxg6+ $1 (24. Qxg6+ $2 Ke7
25. Rh7 (25. Qxg7+ Rf7 26. Qg6 Rd8 $19) 25... Kd7 26. Qxg7+ Kc6 $19) 24... Ke8
25. Qxg7 Rd8 $8 26. Rh7 $1 Qf4+ (26... Qe5 27. Qxc7 $11) 27. Rd2 Bf7 $5 (27...
Qe5 28. Rh8 $11) 28. Qxf7+ Rxf7 29. gxf7+ Ke7 30. f8=Q+ Kxf8 31. Rh8+ Ke7 32.
Rhxd8 Qxg4 $11) 18. Qxh7+ (18. Nxc7 Qe3+ $1 {/\ Rad8}) 18... Kf7 19. g4 (19.
Qh5+ g6 $1 20. Qh7+ Ng7 21. Nxc7 Qe3+ 22. Kb1 Rad8 $1 $19) 19... Rh8 $1 20.
gxf5 (20. Qxf5 Qxf5 21. gxf5 Rxh1 22. Rxh1 Bxf5 $17) 20... Qxf5 21. Qxf5 Bxf5
$17 {black has better endgame because may use rook and bishop as tandem better
than rook and knight and also create a passed pawn in king side} *

  
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #22 - 06/07/04 at 03:04:04
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Unjustified assertions are SO cool!  8)
  

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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #21 - 06/06/04 at 18:47:49
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White doesn't have a chance in any of those lines.
  
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #20 - 06/06/04 at 05:23:09
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[Event "Wch U20"]
[Site "Gausdal NOR"]
[Date "1986.??.??"]
[Round "9"]
[White "Hellers, Ferdinand"]
[Black "Bareev, Evgeny I"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2440"]
[BlackElo "2470"]
[ECO "C13i"]
[EventDate "1986.08.??"]
[PlyCount "37"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "1996.11.15"]

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e5 Nfd7 6.h4 h6 7.Be3 c5 8.Qg4 g6 9.Nf3 Nc6 10.dxc5 Nxc5 11.O-O-O a6 12.Bxc5 Bxc5 13.Ne4 Be7 14.Qf4 b5 15.Nd6+ Bxd6 16.exd6 Ra7 17.Nd4 Kd7 18.Bxb5 axb5 19.Qxf7+ 1-0
  
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #19 - 06/05/04 at 11:33:08
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I'm highly surprised to see 6 ...h6 recommended as a refutation, both on general grounds and because so far as I'm aware most books on the French consider that both 7 Be3(!) and 7 Be7 (and maybe even 7 Bf4) are good for White; one of the key games as I understand it is Hellers--Bareev played in, if my memory serves, 1987.

Would you care to provide some analysis to corroborate your view that this is good for Black? What is your improvement over Hellers--Bareev?
  
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Paolo
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #18 - 06/04/04 at 15:19:32
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Guys, Hello. From my own experience the Alekhine-Chatard is easily refuted via 1.e4,e4; d4,d5; 3.Nc3,Nf6; 4.Bg5,Be7; 5.e5,Nfd7;6.h4?!,h6!

Gufeld doesn't like it but it is terribly efficient.

What are your comments on it?. Any refutation?
Wink
  
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PoisonedPawn
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #17 - 05/17/04 at 20:57:34
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I was unable to find the NIC article...any help?  Is it gone already?  Thanks.
  
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #16 - 04/30/04 at 14:11:45
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I think it's better 12.Qf3 Nb6 13.g4 h4= Ljubicic - V. Kovacevic, Mravinci 1994.

Black is OK but with 10...Nxd4!? and not 10..g6.


Da Costa Junior
  
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #15 - 04/30/04 at 07:03:13
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Here is a game that convinced me Black is OK:

Kronborg-Kley, corr 1991-93
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e5 Nfd7 6.h4 Bxg5 7.hxg5 Qxg5 8.Nh3 Qe7 9.Nf4 Nc6 10.Qg4 g6 11.OOO h5! 12.Qg3 Nb6 13.Bd3 Bd7 14.Bxg6 Rg8! 15.Rxh5 fxg6 16.Rg5 OOO 17.Nxg6 Qh7 18.Ne2 Be8 19.Nef4 Bxg6 20.Nxg6 Rg7 21.f4 Rdg8 22.Nh4 Nb4 23.Qf2 Rxg5 24.fxg5 Qh5 25.Nf3 Nxa2+ 26.Kb1 Nb4 and Black had a simple win.

Bela
  
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #14 - 04/28/04 at 12:43:53
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Getting back to 8.Qd3 g6, I believe g6 should have ?!  ??? ???annotation attached.  The right move looks like 8.Qd3 h6!?. 8.Qd3 g6 causes longterm black square weakness for the black side.  After h6, the Knight move to attack the Queen, Qe7 and  immediate a6, Black position looks solid.
  
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #13 - 04/15/04 at 16:36:10
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Why is it so obvious that black will only play one variation? i know strong players who play both 3.-Bb4 and 3.-Nf6 and within each major defence there are several interesting choices for black, only in the Winawer there are several interesting lines: play 5.-Ba5, and after 5...bxc3 there are Qc7 intending to defend g7 with f5 or the vacuum cleaner variation with Nge7 and Qc7, or Kindermann & Dirr's 0-0 'castling into the attack' but still very viable.

Both sides have a hard time in the french main lines, white has to be prepared to face a plethora of dangerous lines, while black has to choose which one to test in the present game!  Cheesy
  
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #12 - 04/14/04 at 17:41:29
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I would say that Pedersons book is reasonably impartial, although I felt slightly slanted towards the white side by the nature of that type of book, i.e. as it deals with all of blacks replies to Nc3 it is going to be more useful to a white player who will have to face all of them rather than a black player who will only play one of them.
  
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Wonderer
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #11 - 04/14/04 at 17:31:13
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Well, there's always 2.d3 or 2.Qe2.

I don't think I've seen a book on the french that wasn't written in favour of black, at least not since Suetin's book which is quite outdated nowadays.

Which leaves repertoire books for white, which means either the Advance or the KIA, or Baker's recommendation of 2.Nf3 & 3.Nc3 - which transposes to 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.Nf3 c5 6.dxc5 etc, - something not worth wasting time on as white IMHO...

Anyway, isn't it time there was a forum only for books - as many opening threads tend to end up discussing opening books, so why not gather these at one place?
  
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #10 - 04/14/04 at 17:03:33
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Is Pedersen's French w/Nc3 line written from the white side or black side because I could really use a good book on beating the french without having to play a gambit line or the advance variation.
  
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #9 - 04/14/04 at 16:47:19
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I don't believe stopping after nc6 is enough analysis.
An IM just recommended qd3 to me and 000. Though nc6 slows white down, all of blacks counterplay is gone.
  
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #8 - 03/21/04 at 19:07:08
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Yes. I know.

If white play 8.Nh3 Qe7 9.Nf4 Nc6 10.Qg4 black may take the pawn with 10...Nxd4!? but if white play 8.Nh3 Qe7 9.Qg4 g6 10.Nf4 Nc6 black cannot have the chance to take the pawn because white play 11.0-0-0.

The move order is important to avoid 10...Nxd4!?
So 10.Qd2 is better than 10.Qg4.
We agree in this point.
  
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #7 - 03/21/04 at 17:57:23
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In Da Costa's line 10.Qd2 seems stronger to me.
  

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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #6 - 03/21/04 at 12:00:35
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I think 8.Qd3 is the new main line because it's the best move.

White has some problems to solve in the line 8.Nh3 Qe7 9.Nf4 Nc6 10.Qg4 Nxd4!?
  
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #5 - 03/21/04 at 10:27:46
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I've checked out the NIC Yearbook games, white certainly seems to be on to at the moment in this line, and Jonny Hector especially seems to handle the positions well.

The worry I have is that while strong players seem to play moves like ...Be8 as black, after which I can carry on trotting out the same plan which seems to appear in every game, I doubt many weaker amateurs would be playing in the same style, nor know the theory enough to even play moves like 10...a6. In which case I've got to work out how to play the resulting positions. Still, the plan seems straightforward enough, and it seems almost impossible for black to hold his material.

Still, I think the 8.Nh3 lines are good too, and white scores well after this move.

Regards,
Craig
  

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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #4 - 03/20/04 at 20:41:20
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There is a survey in New in Chess Yearbook 67 with 20 games (8.Qd3) + one historical game.

The games are available in New in Chess' site for download.
  
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #3 - 03/20/04 at 19:43:15
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The Main Line is 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e5 Nfd7 6.h4 Bxg5 7.hxg5 Qxg5 8.Qd3 g6 9.Nf3 Qe7 10.Qe3 a6 11.0-0-0 c5 12.dxc5 Qxc5 13.Qf4 Nc6 14.Bd3 Qf8 [14...Qb4 15.Be4 dxe4 16.Nxe4 with compensation, Grischuk - Brynell, Deutschland 2002] 15.Be4 [Da Costa Junior - Schakel, corr. 2003] 15...dxe4!? 16.Nxe4 Kd8 17.Nfg5 Kc7 18.Qxf7 Qxf7 19.Nxf7 Re8 20.Rxh7 Re7 21.f4 with compensation [Chess Informant 87/280]
  
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #2 - 03/20/04 at 15:18:02
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S.Pedersen in his "The Main Line French: 3.Nc3" gives, "1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e5 Nfd7 6.h4 Bxg5 7.hxg5 Qxg5 8.Qd3 g6 (8...h5 9.Nf3 Qe7 10.g4 g6 [10...h4!?] 11..gxh5 gxh5 12.Qe3 Nb6 13.0-0-0 Bd7 14.Be2 Nc6 15.Qf4! 0-0-0 16.Rdg1!, Hector-Brynell, Gothenburg 1999.) 9.Nf3 Qe7 10.Qe3 Nc6 11.0-0-0 Nb6 12.Rh6 Bd7 13.Qg5 Qxg5+ 14.Nxg5 Ke7 15.Nxh7 Rac8 16.f4 Nb8 17.Bd3 Na4 18.Nxa4 Bxa4 19.Rdh1 c5 20.dxc5 Rxc5 21.Ng5 ±, Hector-Brynell, Malmö 1993.

8.Qd3 looks good to me.  White appears to have long term compensation.
  
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Re: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
Reply #1 - 03/20/04 at 15:00:17
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What are the opening moves?

NeX iRae
  
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C13: Alekhine-Chatard Attack
03/20/04 at 13:53:08
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I'm writing this from the white point of view so my apologies to any French players hoping this would be a refutation!

I've recently started playing this as white. So far I've been playing the Nh3, Qg4 line (which I'm led to believe gives white nebulous compensation), and I have been informed that Qd3 is the "trendy" move, but have failed yet to find any information on the line. I was hoping that we could get a discussion going, mainly on the Qd3 lines (after acceptance by black), but even in general on the lines accepted or declined. Any players of the white side with some new or interesting ideas? Any black players who think that it's unsound and have a way of proving it? Let's see what you guys know Wink

Regards,
Craig Grin
« Last Edit: 08/03/11 at 20:30:17 by dom »  

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