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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Slav 4.e3 Bf5 (Read 9345 times)
Geof Strayer
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Re: Slav 4.e3 Bf5
Reply #22 - 10/07/04 at 02:23:00
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If you don't like the line recommended in Richard Palliser's "Play 1.d4!" after 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 Bf5 (namely, the 5.cxd5 cxd5 6.Qb3 Qc7 7.Bd2 line), you could also consider the 5.Nc3 e6 6.Nh4 line, which scores quite well for White (62% in over 800 games on ChessBase) and which GM Scherbakov indicates is probably good for a small advantage for White.  If you are a subscriber, there is a nice, relatively short summary of the theory in this variation in GM Scherbakov's "Exchange Slav and Others.." PDF book.

I quite like the Slow Slav repertoire proposed by Palliser, particularly the suggested lines after 4...Bg4, 4...e6, 4....a6 and 4...g6.  I have no strong opinion as to whether White can prove an edge in the suggested line after 4...Bf5 5.cxd5 cxd5 6.Qb3 Qc7 7.Bd2; the positions after 7.Bd2 just don't suit me.  I always play a sort of "mix and match" game with a repertoire book, rejecting lines that don't appeal to me (sometimes even if they are quite promising theoretically) and substituting in ones that do.  I think this approach is relatively normal and ultimately more productive.

I also like most of the other "major" repertoire decisions made in Palliser's book (for example, the Furman Variation against the QGA, the 4.e3 lines against the Queen's Indian, the Petrosian Variation against the King's Indian, 6.Bf4 lines against the Benoni, the 4.Nf3 Benko Declined, etc.), and I thought he did an excellent job of presenting critical and instructive lines in a limited space.  The fact that I am not going to adopt all of them (2.Nc3 against the Dutch, for example, does not appeal to me at all, and I already have a pet line against the Grunfeld that seems to work well for me) is not so much a reflection on their ultimate worth as my own stylistic preferences.  I personally feel I am getting a lot of "bang for my buck" from this book because a majority of his suggestions DO suit me (and I suspect will suit other players who have a reasonably active, somewhat positionally-oriented style).

I don't expect one repertoire book to solve all my opening problems, at least not without some additional work on my part.  That book doesn't exist, and never will.  But Palliser's "Play 1 d4!" has made a favorable impression on me, and I hope to see more books from Palliser in the future.

Cheers.

        -Geof
  
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Re: Slav 4.e3 Bf5
Reply #21 - 05/16/04 at 16:00:58
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Thanks Glenn for a sensible post Smiley
Thanks too to all you guys for some enjoyable analysis.  Smiley This is though how theory develops as both sides find improvements (here starting with 11...Nxe5).
I'm far from certain though that this refutes 4 e3 Bf5 5 cxd5 as 8...Nbd7 is for starters a very rare move. Furthermore, whilst 11 Ne5 does not deserve the exclaim I gave it, white can hardly be unhappy with the position after move 10. It's the sort of thing which he's aiming for and should know much better than black who still has this problem f5-bishop. Undoubtedly the position is += / = but I see nothing wrong with 11 Rc1!? or maybe even 11 Bb4 too should anyone reach this over the board.
  
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Re: Slav 4.e3 Bf5
Reply #20 - 05/12/04 at 11:41:12
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Lol........... U r right of course!
I feel a lot calmer now  Smiley
Later!
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Slav 4.e3 Bf5
Reply #19 - 05/10/04 at 22:32:44
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I wouldn't be overly concerned.  This is an unusual way to play the position for Black (maybe the best).  You could probably play a dozen or more games and never meet it.  And it's not like you're risking a lot.  You'll almost certainly know the resulting positions better than your opponent.  

You can also mix in some other options for White if you know your opponent is prepared for that line.  On the "jeremysilman.com" site 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 Bf5 5.Bd3 Bxd3 6.Qxd3 followed by Nc3,0-0, and e4 is mentioned as giving a space advantage.  If Black plays correctly you get no advantage, but it's not a variation you have to spend a lot of time studying.  There is also the exchange Slav that some people find annoying (I like the 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.cxd5 cxd5 4.Bf4 version.)  Finally, if you're a more aggressive mood you might want to learn 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Qc2 which is discussed on another thread here at the forum.  If Black plays 4...e6 you have many good options as White.  

What I'm basically trying to say is that if you worry too much over one equalizing line you might end up switching from one imperfect line to another and be left without having learned any complete variation versus the Slav or other opening.  Which would make you a lot like me!
« Last Edit: 05/21/04 at 19:57:48 by Glenn Snow »  
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Re: Slav 4.e3 Bf5
Reply #18 - 05/10/04 at 09:37:16
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Yeah...........I must say though none of this is inspiring great confidence in this line  ???
And this has serious implications for the whole repertoire , or at least the semi-slav too.
Hmm .......
  
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Re: Slav 4.e3 Bf5
Reply #17 - 05/09/04 at 01:08:04
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Shucks 16...f6 is a good move.  I can't find anything I'm very impressed with for White either.  I started peeling back moves to see if I could find something more encouraging.  The best I've found so far is substituting 15.Bb6!? for 15.Ba5.  Play might continue 15...Bc2 (15...Rc6 16.Bd4 Bc2 17.Nc3=) 16.Nc3 f6 17.Rac1 Bg6 18.exf6 gxf6 19.Na4 Rc2 20.Rxc2 Bxc2 21.b3 and White's queen-side initiative and development lead seem to compensate for Black's 2-bishops and center.  Nothing too earth shattering I'm afraid but I guess the lesson here is if Black can play 15 or so perfect moves in anything but the most challenging White systems then Black should be equal.  
« Last Edit: 10/03/05 at 00:57:25 by Glenn Snow »  
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Re: Slav 4.e3 Bf5
Reply #16 - 05/08/04 at 11:11:52
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Hello agian Glenn
and all!
ok After  16. Rc1  (incidentally, it may seem impractical to some to discuss lines staring at move 16 to some, but alot of these lines a re very thematic and so totally relevant)
ok  16 Rc1 f6
The immediate f6 demands a response. Firstly Bc3 does not win a pawn nor force the favourable exchange cos of Bg6 exploiting the Rc8-Rc1 pin. Bc3 still looks like a move but obviously that cuts out the Nc3 plans for the forseeable.....
I cant find a good move/plan for white.
Help!
  
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Re: Slav 4.e3 Bf5
Reply #15 - 05/07/04 at 10:00:57
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Michael

I had somehow managed not to notice that other thread - I have answered more fully there - i suggest we take our discussion there rather than clutter up this separate thread.

Cheers

alumbrado
  

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Re: Slav 4.e3 Bf5
Reply #14 - 05/07/04 at 09:53:01
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Here is another interesting possibility after 15.Ba5 Bc2 16.Rc1 Kd7 17.Nc3, and now instead of 17...Bf5 let's say Black tries to keep the Bishop a little more active with 17...Bd3.  I had thought this was obviously bad due to 18.Rd1 Bg6 19.e4 but it seems Black does better with 18...Bc2 19.Rd2 (of course if White is happy with a draw then 19.Rdc1) 19...Bg6 20.e4 Bc5!? and now 21.exd5 runs into 21...b6! and if Black is careful White doesn't have enough for the piece.  Incidentally if the Rook were still on d1 White ould be winning, thus ...Bc2.  So instead of 21.exd5 White should prefer 21.a3! when White appears to be doing well after 21...b6 22.Bb4 d4 23.Na4.
  
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Re: Slav 4.e3 Bf5
Reply #13 - 05/07/04 at 08:52:46
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I'm interested to see you mention the 4 Qc2 dc 5 e4!? pawn sac, Alumbrado, since I initiated a whole thread on this a while back ('Countering the tedious Slav'). I haven't managed to locate the articles recommended there yet, and I'm worried that Black seems to score quite well. Would you be able to advise on the main line(s) and their evaluations?
  
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Re: Slav 4.e3 Bf5
Reply #12 - 05/07/04 at 08:46:33
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Yes Glenn fair play to u.....that looks like a nice plan!
Thx
  
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Re: Slav 4.e3 Bf5
Reply #11 - 05/07/04 at 08:41:01
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I was surprised that Richard recommended this line truth be told.  I quite like the 4.Qc2 line, when 4...dxc4 5.e4!? b5 6.b3 is an interesting pawn sac, and 4...g6 5.Bf4 is quite good for White in my view.

Still, I guess 4.Qc2 is my choice primarily because it allows me to steer the game back to a Catalan after 4...e6 5.g3.  Since this is not the repertoire choice here, it doesn't make a lot of sense ...
  

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Re: Slav 4.e3 Bf5
Reply #10 - 05/07/04 at 08:35:23
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Ok, here's an idea after 15.Ba5 Bc2 16.Rc1 Kd7 how about 16.Nc3!? with the idea of 16...Bf5 17.Na4 trying to get something going on the dark-squares.
  
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Re: Slav 4.e3 Bf5
Reply #9 - 05/07/04 at 08:01:56
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Hello Glenn
Yes Bc3 and Nd2-f3 but these only maintain the tension of e5-f6. AsI see it,  this tension is very much in black's favour. If white ever plays exf6 he is faced with a horde of mobile central pawns......ugh. And so Black can leave his B on c2 and play Kd7 and work on c-file amongst other things. The 2 Bishops are a real factor here. I guess White can hold but.......
Richard! if u are out there ur baby needs some attention !
  
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Re: Slav 4.e3 Bf5
Reply #8 - 05/07/04 at 07:28:23
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Actually I had changed my mind when I saw Richard's reply.  After seeing your post I decided to look at it again expecting to be able to find an easy solution for White.   Well I think White has reasonable chances but some care is definitely required to keep Black at bay.  It seems that sometimes Bc3 is necessay in reply to ..f6 in combination with Nd2 and maybe Nf3.  Perhaps others have some more thoughts on this.
  
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