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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 6.Bg5,7.Bb5+ system (Read 9393 times)
bragesjo
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Re: 6.Bg5,7.Bb5+ system
Reply #10 - 01/12/09 at 11:17:13
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f4 allows black to sac the exchange with 24 .. Qd5 25 Re1 Rxd6 26 Nxd6 Qxd6 27 c3 Qd7 28 cxd5 Qf5+ 29 Ka1 exd5. Rybka thinks white is slightly better but I think the position is unclear.

However, if we are looking at white improvments I would suggests 24 Rhd1 meeting Rad8 with Ba3 and white is slightly better since Rb8 can be meet by Bc5 and Rykba 3 best suggestion leeds to an less favorable exchange sac line where white might have an advantage.
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: 6.Bg5,7.Bb5+ system
Reply #9 - 01/11/09 at 23:33:55
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12...Nxc3 seems OK unless you're playing someone rated well below you who decides to play Qxb6.  In the Nisipeanu-Azarov game how does Black answer 24.f4!  Maybe 23...Rad8 is better but I haven't really looked at it.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: 6.Bg5,7.Bb5+ system
Reply #8 - 01/11/09 at 19:17:10
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My new found white improvment (not mentioend by Wards annotations) seems to win by force for white.

However, black still has [White "Nisipeanu, LD."]-[Black "Azarov, S."] where white won but there are improvments (Rd5 instead of Nxh4). 

The funny thing is while I was clearing my mind for a new solution to the 12 Bd4 line I played som internet blitzes and got a chance to tried my backup line 12 .. Nxc3 and won very convincingly since my opponent did not know theory long enough (only pawn snatch and Qa3). If think that white is at least slightly better in Nxc3 line but the november update where Pontus Carlsson was black in on of the two most critical lines seems pretty solid.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: 6.Bg5,7.Bb5+ system
Reply #7 - 01/11/09 at 13:38:49
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I was going throuhgt my notes and I might have found a white improvment. I make a new post on Monday.
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: 6.Bg5,7.Bb5+ system
Reply #6 - 01/10/09 at 17:49:42
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Quote:
Well the only problem with 9 .. d5 is the Experts vs Sicilian line and I call it a forced draw (after e5, Nxc3 system might also be playable) but unfortuanlly not dynamic equal. However aginast 10 Kb1 I made some findings when preparing for a match agianst a 2000 player that usually plays it. Unforutunally he diverted by playing 1 f4 instead and I won a complicated game where he played the position like it was a  classical Dutch and I played it like it was a closed sicilian. I will make som posts about my findnings in Kb1 line next week.


I'm curious as to which variation of 9...d5 you're referring to concerning the forced draw.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: 6.Bg5,7.Bb5+ system
Reply #5 - 01/10/09 at 17:39:04
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Glenn Snow wrote on 01/07/09 at 22:27:37:
Good work as usual bragesjo.  Looking at it now 13...Nc5 looks obvious and seems to give Black lots of play.  I tried to find improvements for White in the main line you gave from Rybka 3 but it seems White's pawn structure prevents him from really getting anywhere.  Now if you could just find a weapon for Black against 9.0-0-0 that gives dynamic equality I'd be really happy with the Dragon!


Well the only problem with 9 .. d5 is the Experts vs Sicilian line and I call it a forced draw (after e5, Nxc3 system might also be playable) but unfortuanlly not dynamic equal. However aginast 10 Kb1 I made some findings when preparing for a match agianst a 2000 player that usually plays it. Unforutunally he diverted by playing 1 f4 instead and I won a complicated game where he played the position like it was a  classical Dutch and I played it like it was a closed sicilian. I will make som posts about my findnings in Kb1 line next week.
  
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Re: 6.Bg5,7.Bb5+ system
Reply #4 - 01/07/09 at 22:27:37
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Good work as usual bragesjo.  Looking at it now 13...Nc5 looks obvious and seems to give Black lots of play.  I tried to find improvements for White in the main line you gave from Rybka 3 but it seems White's pawn structure prevents him from really getting anywhere.  Now if you could just find a weapon for Black against 9.0-0-0 that gives dynamic equality I'd be really happy with the Dragon!
  
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Re: 6.Bg5,7.Bb5+ system
Reply #3 - 01/07/09 at 17:28:22
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Quick look with Rybka 3 says that black seems to be fine!

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4.
Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Bg5 Bg7 7. Bb5+ Bd7 8. Qe2 a6 9. Bxd7+ Nbxd7 10. O-O-O
Rc8 11. f4 Rxc3 12. bxc3 Qc7 13. Rd3 (13. Nb3 {Rybka 3 main move} Qxc3 14. Rd3
Qc6 15. e5 dxe5 16. Rhd1 O-O 17. fxe5 Qe6 18. Bxf6 (18. Bf4 Nh5 19. g3 Nxe5 20.
Re3 f6 21. Kb1 Rc8 22. Bxe5 fxe5 23. Qg2 b5 (23... b6 24. Qe4)) 18... Nxf6 19.
Rd4 h5 20. h3 Nh7 21. Re4 Rc8 {unclear/equal}) (13. e5 dxe5 14. fxe5 Nxe5 15.
Rhe1 Nfd7 16. Qe3 e6 17. Bf4 Qa5 18. Nxe6 fxe6 19. Rxd7 Kxd7 20. Qd4+ Qd5 21.
Bxe5 Bxe5 22. Rxe5 Qxd4 23. cxd4 Rf8 {perhaps slightly  better for black}) (13.
Qf3 O-O 14. Rhe1 Rc8 15. Nb3 h6 16. Bh4 a5 {unclear}) (13. c4 {
typical computer suggestion} O-O 14. Nb3 Rc8 {looks equal}) (13. Rhe1 O-O 14.
Nb3 Nb6 15. Rd3 (15. e5 Nfd5) 15... Rc8 {is equal according to Rybka 3}) 13...
Nc5 14. Re3 {what else?} Na4 {and Rybka preferces black for unkown reasons...}
*

  
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Re: 6.Bg5,7.Bb5+ system
Reply #2 - 01/07/09 at 13:52:14
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I also think that 13.Rd3 is better than 13.Rhe1?! and that the sacrifice on c3 does not give Black full equality.

Chris Ward once played the Black side with 8.-h6!?, and this might be Black's best try. It is difficult to come up with an improvement for White in the following game:


[Event "Lloyds Bank op"]
[Site "London"]
[Date "1992.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Kwiatkowski, Feliks J"]
[Black "Ward, Christopher"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B70"]
[WhiteElo "2240"]
[BlackElo "2440"]
[PlyCount "40"]
[EventDate "1992.08.??"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "10"]
[EventCountry "ENG"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2004.01.01"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Bg5 Bg7 7. Bb5+ Bd7 8.
Qe2 h6 9. Bh4 Nc6 10. O-O-O Nh5 11. Bxc6 bxc6 12. Nf5 gxf5 13. Qxh5 Bxc3 14.
bxc3 Qa5 15. exf5 Qxc3 16. Rhe1 Qa3+ 17. Kd2 Qa5+ 18. Kc1 Qa3+ 19. Kd2 Qa5+ 20.
Kc1 Qa3+ 1/2-1/2

An idea to avoid the perpetual is 18.c3!? (instead of 18.Kc1) which could be worth analysing.
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: 6.Bg5,7.Bb5+ system
Reply #1 - 03/27/04 at 14:22:37
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Due to the overwhelming response I will show one variation for Black that has been well thought of, but seems rather shaky to me.  NCO's main line is 6.Bg5 Bg7 7.Bb5+ Bd7 8.Qe2 a6 9.Bxd7+ Nbxd7 10.O-O-O Rc8  11.f4 Rxc3!? 12.bxc3 Qc7 and now instead of 13.Rhe1, the materialistic 13.Rd3 seems quite qood for White to me.
  
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Glenn Snow
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6.Bg5,7.Bb5+ system
03/20/04 at 23:12:00
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I know Ward doesn't think highly of this system but Martin recently did a couple of articles on it at "jeremysilman.com".  I think its quite dangerous.  I recently started reviewing some of the recommended lines for Black and many of them looked a little shaky to say the least.  Right now I like 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Bg5 Bg7 7.Bb5+ Bd7 8.Qe2 Nc6 9.O-O-O Rc8 for Black, but I don't think this actually gives him an advantage.  Any other thoughts on this line?
  
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