According to Norwood in 'Winning with the Modern' (from 1994, but still easily the best book on the Modern in my opinion.)

"5...Ne5 just gives white too much time: 6.f4 Nd7 7.Nf3 and black is way behind in development." He doesn't mention 5...Nb8, perhaps because it can transpose to the above after 6.f4...


5 Be3 e5 6 d5 Nce7 7 c5!? (Norwood concentrates on 7.g4, but does give the following: 7...f5 8.cxd6 cxd6 9.Bb5+ Bd7 10.Bx Qx 11.f3 Nf6 12 Nh3 Petrosian-Ivkov Bugojno 1982, and now 12...fe 13.fe Ng4 14.Qf3 Rf8 15.Qg3 Nxe3 16.Qxe3 Ng8 with unclarity (Petrosian).



Ward,C (2509) - Speelman,J (2604) [A42]
Redbus Knockout London (1.2), 2000

1.d4 d6 2.e4 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.Nc3 Nc6 5.Be3 e5 6.d5 Nce7 7.c5 f5 8.Bb5+ Kf8 9.f3 Bh6 10.Bxh6+ Nxh6 11.f4!? a6 12.Ba4 exf4 13.Qd4 Nf7 14.c6 b5 15.Bc2 fxe4 16.Bxe4 Ng8 17.Nge2 Qf6 18.0-0 g5 19.g3 Bh3 20.Bg2 Bxg2 21.Kxg2 Re8 22.gxf4 b4 23.Qxb4 Ngh6 24.Qd4 Qxd4 25.Nxd4 gxf4 26.Ne6+ Ke7 27.Rxf4 Ne5 28.h3 Reg8+ 29.Kh2 Rg6 30.Rg1 Rhg8 31.Rxg6 hxg6 32.Nxc7 g5 33.Rf1 g4 34.Ne6 Nhf7 35.c7 gxh3 36.Nd8 Rxd8 37.cxd8Q+ Nxd8 38.Kxh3 Nd3 39.b3 Nf7 40.Kg4 1-0

Transposing to something KIDish with 7...Nf6 is also an option not mentioned by the books:



Svetushkin,D (2490) - Gelashvili,T (2550) [A42]
31st TCh-GRE, Halkidiki GRE (4), 2002

1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.Nc3 d6 4.e4 e5 5.Be3 Nc6 6.d5 Nce7 7.c5 Nf6 8.f3 0-0 9.Qd2 c6 10.dxc6 d5 11.c7 Qd7 12.exd5 Nexd5 13.Nxd5 Qxd5 14.Ne2 Qc6 15.Nc3 Be6 16.Qd6 Ne8 17.Qxc6 bxc6 18.Ba6 Nxc7 19.Bb7 Rab8 20.Bxc6 Rxb2 21.0-0 f5 22.Rac1 Rd8 23.Rfd1 Rxd1+ 24.Rxd1 Bf8 25.Ba4 Rb4 26.c6 Rc4 27.Rd8 f4 28.Bd2 Kf7 29.Bb3 Rxc6 30.Ne4 Bxb3 31.axb3 Be7 32.Rc8 Ke6 33.Ba5 Kd7 34.Rxc7+ Rxc7 35.Bxc7 Kxc7 36.Kf1 Kc6 37.Ke2 Kb5 38.Kd3 Kb4 39.Kc2 h5 40.Nd2 Bc5 41.Ne4 Be3 42.Ng5 Bb6 43.Ne4 Bd8 44.Nf2 Kc5 45.Kd3 Bh4 46.Ne4+ Kb4 47.Kc2 a6 48.Nd2 a5 49.Ne4 Be7 50.Nd2 Bh4 51.Ne4 Be1 52.Nf6 Bf2 53.Ne4 Bb6 54.Nf6 Bd8 55.Ne4 Be7 56.Nf2 Kc5 57.Kd3 Kd5 58.Ne4 Bb4 59.Ng5 Be7 60.Ne4 Bd8 ½-½



Bagirov,V (2471) - Rashkovsky,N (2513) [A42]
Biel MTO Biel (5), 24.07.1999

1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.e4 d6 4.Nc3 Nc6 5.Be3 e5 6.d5 Nce7 7.c5 Nf6 8.Bb5+ Nd7 9.Nge2 0-0 10.b4 f5 11.f3 Nf6 12.h3 h5 13.Qb3 f4 14.Bf2 g5 15.Nc1 Ng6 16.Nd3 Rf7 17.0-0-0 g4 18.hxg4 hxg4 19.Bc4 g3 20.Be1 Bf8 21.cxd6 Bxd6 22.Nc5 Qe7 23.Ne6 Rh7 24.Rxh7 Qxh7 25.Nb5 Bxe6 26.dxe6 Qe7 27.Nxd6 cxd6 28.b5 Rc8 29.Kb1 Qc7 30.Rc1 Ne7 31.Bb4 Ne8 32.Qd3 Qb6 33.a4 a5 34.Ba3 Kg7 35.Rc2 Kf6 36.Ka2 Qg1 37.Qd2 b6 38.Bb2 Kg5 39.Bxe5 dxe5 40.Qd7 Kf6 0-1

Something strange seems to be going on, as Speelman says he gives an example in which black is suffering, but I can't actually find it anywhere in the book!

Bound to be in stock either on Amazon or at BCM Chess Shop - order online and spare yoursefl the East Coast main line!

Jon Speelman in "modern defence" gives 5...Ne5 as playable, but suggests that the reason it does well is that it is often played by strong players wanting to avoid the forced draw lines when playing weaker players.

Against 7.c5 he gives 7...f5 8.cxd6 cxd6 9.Bb5+ Kf8 10.f3 Bh6 11.Bxh6+ Nxh6 12.Qd2 Nf7 13.f4 fxe4 as the critical line when he thinks that black will successfully defend, and wind up with a good position. The idea behind c5 is that with this pawn structure white normally attacks on the queenside and black on the kingside so white hopes to get started on his attack quickly in the hope that it will force black to defend rather than counter-attack. Specifically c5 will more or less force the creation of a weak pawn on either c7 or d6 which can be attacked with moves like Nb5 and Rc1. Against this black has to react quickly and sharply, which is why f5 is commonly played, when the pressure on e4 and possibility of opening the f-file gives counterplay.