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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Is the dragon dead? (Read 8210 times)
almighty
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Re: Is the dragon dead?
Reply #14 - 05/27/04 at 12:22:45
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Meanwhile I found some interesting things elsewhere on this forum; I didn't knew there was so much fantastic information about openings around here! Wink But tnx anyway Glenn Smiley
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Is the dragon dead?
Reply #13 - 05/23/04 at 10:31:28
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You could certainly start by reviewing the posts here in the Dragon forum.  Which variation of the Yugoslav are you concerned with?  It would take a very long post to cover all of them.
  
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almighty
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Re: Is the dragon dead?
Reply #12 - 05/23/04 at 04:42:31
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Owww, sorry guys.. Of course i'd wanted to ask u if u can give me some interesting ideas for black in the yugoslavian variation.  Wink

I already know some plans, but i wonder if there are maybe more surprises in this great opening  Grin
  
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Oldschool
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Re: Is the dragon dead?
Reply #11 - 05/22/04 at 19:34:05
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As a God you should know. So weīd rather refain from blasphemia and let you figure it out yourself.  Grin
  
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almighty
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Re: Is the dragon dead?
Reply #10 - 05/22/04 at 12:51:41
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Hi guys! God is in the house  Grin  Wink

Can someone tell me somthing about the plans for white in the yugoslavian variation...?
  
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Re: Is the dragon dead?
Reply #9 - 05/22/04 at 12:48:12
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about the dragon won't be dead
  
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Re: Is the dragon dead?
Reply #8 - 05/22/04 at 12:43:17
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OldSchool is right about....what???!! I don't know which comment you're talking about!!
  
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yorick
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Re: Is the dragon dead?
Reply #7 - 05/22/04 at 12:33:01
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Oldschool is right!!!!!
  
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Re: Is the dragon dead?
Reply #6 - 05/06/04 at 00:47:08
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There is a thread here entitled "9.0-0-0: A critical line under the microscope".  It has some interesting analysis concerning the 9...Nxd4 variation.  There some strong continuations were suggested for White.  I have to admit that I haven't looked at this in awhile and not all of the posts critically.  Last post under that topic was a suggestion for Black by M.Golubev.
  
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Oldschool
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Stefan Sievers (FM)

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Re: Is the dragon dead?
Reply #5 - 05/05/04 at 17:06:45
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Just a few remarks:

9.0-0-0 d5 10.Kb1 is still played but as I stated above is quite a harmless line. I is dismissed by theory in view of the Queen Sac. Of course you can repeat yourself a couple more times that the Queens Sac is insufficient but that is your personal opinion which I simply donīt share.

10...Rb8 is probably playable as well. I have no idea if it is about to become the main line or not, and actually I donīt care. My advice is the following. Just play it. You have analysed it thourougly so most likely you will understand the resulting positions better than your opponent. If you are busted in the opening, publish your concrete problems. Till then to me it seems there are more important questions to solve than why your favourite GM adopts another line.

I donīt see any special theoretical problem with 9...Nxd4. White may get a slight edge in certain lines but that is normal in opning theory. If you named an ultrastrong cotinuation I could possibly help you but posting the entire theory in that line is way beyond the time I have for dealing with this forum.

Stefan
  
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Teyko
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Re: Is the dragon dead?
Reply #4 - 05/05/04 at 13:40:33
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First off, I did not mean for the board to be that serious, secondly, thanks glenn for taking a shot at the Blackmar diemar gambit which is far from dead. I will post there is a second. And as far as the dragon goes, I don't understand why after 9.0-0-0 d5!? 10. Kb1 Rb8 is just not playable. I like it and have had fritz and shredder working on it for 2 days, and I must say I like my findings. However, the question to me remains why we haven't seen it played more, and why Kasparov said it was dead, which was the impetus for the post.
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Is the dragon dead?
Reply #3 - 05/05/04 at 08:54:13
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Well stated Oldschool, but the 9.0-0-0 Nxd4 line is looking a little shaky to me based on the analysis I've seen here.  Perhaps you have some innovations in this line that you could share with us sometime.
  
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Oldschool
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Stefan Sievers (FM)

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Re: Is the dragon dead?
Reply #2 - 05/05/04 at 08:38:45
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People are getting a little philosophic in here...

Let me state one thing: The Dragon never was, nor is or ever will be "dead". Frankly speaking, even if Garry Kasparov declared the Dragon to be dead I couldnīt care less. As a player with a current Fide ELO Rating of 2358 I hardly play our Dear Garry twice a week and I somehow have the feeling you donīt play him that often either. My opponents of similar strenght didnīt even come close to refuting my opening play. If you are a Elo 1800 player you had better other things to ponder than what may happen if you play a Super GM.

Did I lose Dragon games? Sure I did! You may look it up in every database, but I seldom lost because of the opening but most often because I was outplayed by stronger opposition. This unfortunately happens from time to time in our beloved game.

So please do me a favour. Unless you are an ELO  2700+ player, donīt declare a Dragon line "refuted". Just state instead YOU were incapable of finding an improvement in a certain line and wait for a strong IM or GM to change the theory with his latest game.

9.0-0-0 is the positional solution and the choice of most strong players not because it is the strongest move but because it is less dangerous for White than 9.Lc4 where White can easily lose if heīs not up to date with current theory. With 0-0-0 White can outplay weaker opponets without taking much risk.

After 9.0-0-0 both 9...d5 and 9...Nd4 are perfectly playable. 9...Ld7 is probably fundamentally unsound though it is difficult to cope with over the board. Black has various improvement over current theory most of them consisting of move-order-tricks which may be eventually insufficient for equality but certainly make the line playable.

Pls also note that a slightly worse position for Black is OK in opening theory. If you understand the themes and plans you will easily outplay your opponent even from a worse position. This is especially valid regarding players with ELO below 2200.

Stefan
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Is the dragon dead?
Reply #1 - 05/04/04 at 22:00:36
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There's a post somewhere on here stating the Mr.Kasparov himself stating the Dragon is busted.  That made me wonder if he thought it was because of 9.Bc4 or 9.0-0-0 or both.   

However, against 9.Bc4 much is still unclear in the older tries and of course everyone is analysing the "Chinese" Dragon now (although Martin has stated this was being played back in the 70's).  Against 9.0-0-0 a lot of the responses seem quite risky (or just bad) if White knows the theory.  But the old main line of 9...d5 (10.exd5 Nxd5 11.Nxc6 bxc6 12.Bd4 e5) and the newer 10...Bxd4 11.Qxd4 Qc7 still seem very playable if sometimes not as exciting as some Dragon players would like.

Is the Dragon dead?  I've heard that before and each time the Dragon came storming back.  Of course we know a lot more now but talk of "death" is still a little premature in my opinion.  I mean were not talking about the BDG here.
  
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Teyko
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Is the dragon dead?
05/04/04 at 21:08:14
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With GM Ward being M.I.A and fellow dragoneers trying to cope with the loss of this system. Is it true that the dragon lives no more. Is it the case that 9.0-0-0 is the "truth" and we shall never see the dragon rear its mythical head once again? 

Its sad, but lets take a moment of silence for the dragon.
  
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