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Normal Topic C17: Winawer 5.Bd2 sideline (Read 13075 times)
Keano
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Re: C17: Winawer 5.Bd2 sideline
Reply #9 - 03/04/14 at 19:58:39
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As mentioned by a few already 4...Ne7 is a good move for the lazy chess player who wants to avoid this business.
  
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erasmus_b_dragon
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Re: C17: Winawer 5.Bd2 sideline
Reply #8 - 03/03/14 at 18:58:33
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Klick wrote on 05/05/04 at 05:20:22:
My question is about the sideline 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3. Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5 5.Bd2. What an annoying move Smiley


5.Bd2 leads to interesting and challenging play for both sides.

Comment about the following: I really like PTF 4, but it's really difficult to keep track of transpositions (or lines that appear to be transpositions but in fact are not. Perhaos that is the reason for the position in PTF4 that does not match the actual gamre.).

After 5...Ne2 6.dxc5 (White's 6th seems like a decent move. 6.f4 seems inferior for white because of 6...cxd4 7.Nb5 Bc5, -- 8.213 note b in PTF 4) Watson in PTF 4 has (section 8.211 note a) 6...Nbc6 7.f4 O-O (....Bxc5 seems to avoid complications after 8.Na4 but white played a different move on move 8) 8. Nf3 f6 9. Bd3 which is supposed to be Santo Roman-Kindermann 1990, but does not match the actual position at move 9 in that game.

I suspect that strong masters play objectively weaker moves (sometimes without realizing it)  in order to steer the game toward variations they are comfortable with. Chess authors can have a similar problem; in fact, the need to use lines that fit in a consistent consistent system surely must be compelling.
  

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Re: Winawer 5.Bd2 sideline
Reply #7 - 06/13/05 at 07:55:54
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Quote:
Welcome on the French forum !!  Smiley


Thanks dom, nice to be on French soil.  Grin

The Seirawan idea of dealing with the light squared bishop in such a imaginative and unorthodox way is very interesting. Perhaps adoptable in other lines as well. Thanks for pointing it out.

Nice game by Fine by the way, he should've played 26.fxe5 instead and won it. But If Fine endorses 8.Nf3 who am I to disagree.  8.Nf3...good move. Wink
  
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dom
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Re: Winawer 5.Bd2 sideline
Reply #6 - 06/12/05 at 11:00:36
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Welcome on the French forum !!  Smiley
"inferior Nf3" .. maybe. Do you know game: Fine-Capablanca, Netherlands 1938 ?
and if your opponent always play Bd2 vs Winawer, you can try: 4...Ne7 5.Bd2 b6!? 6.Nb5 Bxd2+ 7.Qxd2 a6!? 8.Na3 a5! Ljubojevic-Seirawan,Mar del Plata 1981 (Zlotnik)
  

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Re: Winawer 5.Bd2 sideline
Reply #5 - 06/12/05 at 08:36:37
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I had a game the other day with the 5.Bd2 line. It took me off guard a bit I must admit. I played cxd4 and it looks playable but as others already pointed out Ne7 with the Ba6 plan seems superior and hopefully I'll get a chance to try that plan soon.

The game continued 6.Nb5 Bxd2+ 7.Qxd2 Nc6 and here white played the inferior 8.Nf3 (Nd6+ or even f4 looks better) and black was ok.
  
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Re: Winawer 5.Bd2 sideline
Reply #4 - 05/05/04 at 07:14:35
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Psakhis' work has been/will be expanded to four volumes, three of which have been released over the last two years. I forget the exact titles, but an author search at Amazon.com should reveal them. The most recent release does indeed cover the Winawer.
  
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Klick
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Re: Winawer 5.Bd2 sideline
Reply #3 - 05/05/04 at 06:16:38
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Thank you for your reply.

It certainly seems very interesting to play 4...Ne7, with the b6-plan in mind Cheesy. However, I used to play this, but gave it up for some reason. I guess I just feel like putting immediate pressure on white`s centre.

I remember a couple of years back that I came across "The Complete French", by Lev Psakhis (I think) and it seemed to be some good suggestions there in the line with 4...c5 5.Bd2 Ne7, but I am unable to remember what they were. The book was a gem for any chess-player playing the French, but I was unable to convince my friend that he should sell it to me Wink and I was under the impression that the book was out of print. Are there now a new edition available?
  

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Re: Winawer 5.Be2 sideline
Reply #2 - 05/05/04 at 06:10:09
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Surely every French Defence player should have a copy of Watson's "Play the French" 3rd ed (or maybe 2nd edition) which has some good material on the non-main lines.  
  
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dom
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Re: Winawer 5.Be2 sideline
Reply #1 - 05/05/04 at 05:50:10
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Hello, and welcome on French forum !...
"considerable amount of sidelines...": not so hugge, but some work is required to play French Winawer and not only the so-called main lines. First exist gambits: 4.a3 and 4.Nge2 (I recommend reading Tim Harding's book "Four gambits to beat the French" and Uhlmann best games'book) and 4.Bd2 and 4.Qd3 Next you have variations against doubled-pawn c2-c3 stategy: namely 4.Qd3, 5.Bd2 or 5.Nge2 (I recommend "Complete French"  Psakhis's book).
As Black, I prefer 4...Ne7 to answer 5.Bd2 with 5...b6!? which is given by Psakhis because White has played a slow move (Bd2), hence Black can play light-square bishop exchange plan (Ba6). But you can play the line you give with 4...c5 5.Bd2 Ne7 and if knight goes to d6 square (via b5) then knight seems to be strong on the 6-rank but Black can attack his defender with f6. As first reply, I advice you to look at all moves attacking e5 pawn (f6,Cg6,Cf5,..) and you'll see it not so simple for White to keep knight on d6-square (and exchange NxBc8 soon occurs). I 'll be back with some lines.
  

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Klick
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C17: Winawer 5.Bd2 sideline
05/05/04 at 05:20:22
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The Winawer-mainlines are quite fun to play as Black. However, one of the disadvantages of the Winawer, is that white has a considerable amount of "sidelines" available. I guess 5.Ne2 is one of the more popular.

My question is about the sideline 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3. Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5 5.Bd2. What an annoying move Smiley I am used to play against normal white weaknesses on the queenside, what should I go for now? How should Black treat the position, what is his plan?

I think 5...Ne7 is the best and most ambitious move. Following 6.Nb5 Bxd2+ 7.Qxd2 0-0 we arrive at one of the thematic positions. But I don`t feel that comfortable here. White will be able to castle quickly, play f4 supporting his center, and has the option of putting his knight on d6. What should black play for here if he wants to win? I suspect that Black has some good options, but I am not quite sure what they are. Please enlighten me!
« Last Edit: 08/03/11 at 19:31:18 by dom »  

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