Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Open Ruy Lopez (Read 159721 times)
NeverGiveUp
Full Member
***
Offline


Never despair in a lost
position

Posts: 221
Joined: 11/18/09
Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #31 - 01/24/11 at 11:30:12
Post Tools
Thanks for this Ametanoitos.

A very relevant question - but all I've been able to find is the 7 games in NICbase. In NICbase there is no reference to a yearbook so I suppose a survey has not (yet?) been written about it (I don't have a subscription). It' s not mentioned as far as I can tell in Flear, Kortschnoi, ECO. I suppose Mikhalevski keeps it to himself for the time being to be able to score points with it? Must say however my sources of the latests opening novelties are a bit limited. It goes without saying that if there is something out there I'm very interested indeed. And don't underestimate the analyses posted on this site - from my experience they're usually very good and can be ground-breaking!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ametanoitos
God Member
*****
Offline


The road to success is
under construction

Posts: 1427
Location: Patras
Joined: 01/04/05
Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #30 - 01/24/11 at 11:02:59
Post Tools
@NeverGiveUp:

Thanks for sharing this. I'll look at it ,because i am interested in general for the Open Lopez, and i'll also share my thoughts after i do some research. For  starters: does this variation have been covered in works such as Khalifman, ECO, NCO, Yearbooks, Chesspublishing etc?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #29 - 01/24/11 at 10:21:57
Post Tools
Moderator...?
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
NeverGiveUp
Full Member
***
Offline


Never despair in a lost
position

Posts: 221
Joined: 11/18/09
Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #28 - 01/24/11 at 10:16:50
Post Tools
I still would like to draw your guy's attention to the sideline 9.Nbd2 Nc5 10.c3 Bf5 (!) of our very own Mikhalevski. I analysed it with the computer over the weekend. In NICbase 7 games have been played with it and black is doing fine. More importantly there is a clear rationale for the line - after Nbd2 and c3 white needs to untangle by playing Bc2, Nb3 and then might go Nfd4 and f4 with a king's side attack to follow. The nasty 10. ... Bf5! is a prophylaxis and doesn't allow white to untangle in this way without a concession. If he goes 11. Bc2 then black goes 11. ... Bc2: 12. Qc2: d4 and black is fine - he has exchanged his "bad" bishop and after 13.cd4: (what else?) he can go 13. ... Nd4: 14.Nd4: Qd4: 15.Nf3 Qd3 where the knight on c5 is well placed, so the endgame if anything might be slightly better for black. So white should try something else - but 11.Nd4 Nd4: 12.cd4: Ne6! is OK for black after 13.Nb1 (ugly move, but white needs to untangle ...) c5! 14.dc5: d4 15.Be6: Be6: 16.Bd4: Bc5: 17.Bc5: Qd1: 18.Rd1: Bc5: with equality, or 13.Nf3 Be7 14.Be3 0-0 15.Rc1 Qd7 16.Qd2 a5! followed by a4. I can't see any line here giving white an advantage and the variation leads to lots of play so seems to be exactly what black wants.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
yanghongyu
Ex Member


Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #27 - 01/24/11 at 08:05:52
Post Tools
I am glad to sharing your thing, let me know so much about your information
cheap throwback jerseys
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ametanoitos
God Member
*****
Offline


The road to success is
under construction

Posts: 1427
Location: Patras
Joined: 01/04/05
Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #26 - 01/24/11 at 06:22:12
Post Tools
TonyRo wrote on 01/20/11 at 16:43:05:
Markovich wrote on 01/20/11 at 15:17:19:
TonyRo wrote on 01/20/11 at 14:30:23:
Has 9. Nbd2 really thrown the Open Lopez into the fiery pits of chess yesteryear? Didn't our very own Mikhalevski write ~4-5 Yearbook articles on the Open Ruy Lopez recently. I think mostly on 9. Nbd2.


Yes, and if you believe him (I do), Black is perfectly O.K. after 9.Nbd2.  Theory has changed in Black's favor since some of the earlier posts on this thread, which date back to 2004.  The Open is once again being played at high levels.


This was my opinion as well when looking at it recently as well. On to something else to challenge the Open Ruy Lopez.


Looking at yearbook 92 (that i have) i am not very convinced that Black is fine in the lines Mikhalevsky shows. He always has to fight for equality, he maybe achieves this at the (very) end but White's superior structure is always something that discourages me to play the Black's position.

Maybe he offers something better in yearbooks 93,94,95 or 97? Or does he cover the same (Lasker's) line? (with Nbd2 Nc5 + d4)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
NeverGiveUp
Full Member
***
Offline


Never despair in a lost
position

Posts: 221
Joined: 11/18/09
Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #25 - 01/21/11 at 11:47:43
Post Tools
Related question - I have seen several games of Mikhalevski with 9.Nbd2 Nc5 10.c3 Bf5!? - he played it against quite strong opposition and got good results and postions. The main idea is 11.Nd4 Nd4: 12.cd4: Ne6 13.Nb1 (13.Nf3 Bg4) Rc8 14.Be3 c5! 15.dc5: d4 16.Be6: Be6: 17.Bd4: Bc5: 18.Bc5: Qd1: 19.Rd1: Rc5: and black regains the e5 pawn with the better position. 11.Bc2 Bc2: 12.Qc2: is easy for black after 12. ... d4 or 12. ... Be7. To me this looks a bit like an improved version of 10. ... d4 11.Be6: Ne6:. What do you guys think of this interesting variation?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
NeverGiveUp
Full Member
***
Offline


Never despair in a lost
position

Posts: 221
Joined: 11/18/09
Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #24 - 01/21/11 at 09:42:32
Post Tools
Right guys - this is very good news indeed - can you satisfy my curiostity by giving your expert advice - what should black be playing against Nbd2?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TonyRo
God Member
*****
Offline


I'm gonna crack your skull!

Posts: 1772
Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: 11/26/07
Gender: Male
Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #23 - 01/20/11 at 16:43:05
Post Tools
Markovich wrote on 01/20/11 at 15:17:19:
TonyRo wrote on 01/20/11 at 14:30:23:
Has 9. Nbd2 really thrown the Open Lopez into the fiery pits of chess yesteryear? Didn't our very own Mikhalevski write ~4-5 Yearbook articles on the Open Ruy Lopez recently. I think mostly on 9. Nbd2.


Yes, and if you believe him (I do), Black is perfectly O.K. after 9.Nbd2.  Theory has changed in Black's favor since some of the earlier posts on this thread, which date back to 2004.  The Open is once again being played at high levels.


This was my opinion as well when looking at it recently as well. On to something else to challenge the Open Ruy Lopez.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #22 - 01/20/11 at 15:17:19
Post Tools
TonyRo wrote on 01/20/11 at 14:30:23:
Has 9. Nbd2 really thrown the Open Lopez into the fiery pits of chess yesteryear? Didn't our very own Mikhalevski write ~4-5 Yearbook articles on the Open Ruy Lopez recently. I think mostly on 9. Nbd2.


Yes, and if you believe him (I do), Black is perfectly O.K. after 9.Nbd2.  Theory has changed in Black's favor since some of the earlier posts on this thread, which date back to 2004.  The Open is once again being played at high levels.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TonyRo
God Member
*****
Offline


I'm gonna crack your skull!

Posts: 1772
Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: 11/26/07
Gender: Male
Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #21 - 01/20/11 at 14:30:23
Post Tools
Has 9. Nbd2 really thrown the Open Lopez into the fiery pits of chess yesteryear? Didn't our very own Mikhalevski write ~4-5 Yearbook articles on the Open Ruy Lopez recently. I think mostly on 9. Nbd2.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
NeverGiveUp
Full Member
***
Offline


Never despair in a lost
position

Posts: 221
Joined: 11/18/09
Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #20 - 01/20/11 at 10:26:21
Post Tools
I wonder - Bond has said that 9.Nbd2 Bc5 gives black a worse endgame - but some recent games on NICbase suggest black might be doing OK here? After 10.Ne4: de4: 11.Qd8: Rd8: 12.Ng5 black can go 12. ... 0-0!? and after 13.Be6: fe6: 14.Ne6: Bf2:+! 15.Kh1 (15.Rf2:? Rd1+) e3! and black is allright due to the threat e2.

What do you guys think - might Bc5 be black's salvation in the nasty Nbd2 line?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
NeverGiveUp
Full Member
***
Offline


Never despair in a lost
position

Posts: 221
Joined: 11/18/09
Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #19 - 11/12/10 at 11:12:08
Post Tools
Thanks for this guys.

It looks like black is in business after 9.Nbd2 Nc5 10.c3 d4 11.Ng5 - if he follows the Ponomariov line - but what is your verdict on the equally popular 11.Be6: Ne6: 12.cd4: Nd4: where looking at the database results black is also struggling? 

I want to take up the main line open ruy lopez but like Markovich I am struggling finding an adequate reply to 9.Nbd2.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
AMM
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 110
Location: Barcelona - Spain
Joined: 11/08/07
Gender: Male
Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #18 - 10/25/10 at 20:10:27
Post Tools
MARKOVICH:

Yes, really.  True, 9.c3 Be7 is supposed to lead to a "slight advantage" in the sense that White has a slight advantage in the opening position, maybe a little worse depending on your taste; but 9.Nbd2 Be7 (or Bc5) 10.Nxe4 is supposed to lead to something somewhat more than that.  Maybe I'm wrong, but that has been my understanding.  9.Nbd2 is a challenge to the entire Open Defense and not just a move-order trick to avoid 9...Bc5.  That's why Kasparov said after defeating Anand with 9.Nbd2 that he had "closed the Open Defense."  And as you'll recall, for about 10 years or so it remained closed, until Ponomariov's discoveries in the pawns-versus-piece ending that arises from taking off the g5 knight.

TO NeverGiveUp; Ponomariov's game ( I assume ... )

9.Nbd2 Nc5 10.c3 d4 11.Ng5 Qxg5 12.Qf3 0-0-0 13.Bxe6+ fxe6 14.Qxc6 Qxe5 15.b4 Qd5! ( 15..Nb7 16.Qxa6 Qd5 17.Nf3 ) 16.Qxd5 exd5 17.bxc5 dxc3 18.Nb3 d4 19.Ba3 ( 19.Rd1 d3 20.Be3 c2 ) 19..g6 ( 19..c2!? and d3 ) 20.Bb4 Bg7 ( or 20..c2 again ) 21.a4 d3 22.axb5 d2 23.Nxd2 Bxa1 24.Rxa1 Rhe8 draw in move 41 ( Morozevich-Ponomariov, Biel, 2004 ).

Shirov-Anand, Mainz, 2004 was 23.c6 Kb8 24.Rad1 Rd5 ( 24..axb5 ) 25.bxa6 Rhd8 26.Na1 Ka7 27.Nc2 Rb8 even Black has a good counterplay, although game finished in draw at move 42.

At all, perhaps Open Ruy Lopez is still playable after 9.Nbd2 ....!?
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
NeverGiveUp
Full Member
***
Offline


Never despair in a lost
position

Posts: 221
Joined: 11/18/09
Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #17 - 10/18/10 at 10:17:16
Post Tools
Actually that the open RL is not popular nowadays is to black's advantage if he knows the theory - since white may well have forgotten the details.

I find a downside to the open RL that  it's such an immense lot of opening theory to learn - it's a world of its own. The variations are very interesting however and you can select your own sideline(s). Flear's book is very good.

You guys are referring to a Ponomariov line at move 23 but what is this line please?

I myself wouldn't be too keen with black on playing 9.Nbd2 Nc5 10.c3 d4 (even if it would equalise) because that's the line everyone is playing so white will know it and may come up with a theoretical improvement.

What about 9.Nbd2 Nc5 10.c3 Be7 11.Bc2 d4!? that's an unusual line which seems very doable for black.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo