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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Open Ruy Lopez (Read 159507 times)
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Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #46 - 04/02/11 at 19:06:24
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The last post wasnt too helpful. Why is it bad?

Have you even seen it?
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #45 - 04/02/11 at 18:29:27
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Just bad!
  
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Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #44 - 04/02/11 at 04:47:33
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I'm also interested to hear anyone's review of the Andrew Martin DVD on the Open Ruy. Has anyone got a copy yet ?
  
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Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #43 - 02/12/11 at 08:50:28
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IM Martin has now a chessbase DVD featuring the Open. I would buy it but i have become slightly sceptical about his DVDs nowdays because their level of quality is not always the same. Maybe some has already this DVD and can provide a feedback?
  
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Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #42 - 02/01/11 at 09:29:14
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Re Ametanoitos, 11.a4!? and then ba4: 12.Ba4: Na4: 13.Qa4: Qd7 14.Nb3 Be7 15.Re1 - you said:

"15... Rb8 16.Nbd4 Nxd4 17. Nxd4 Qxa4 18. Rxa4 Bd3 19. Rd1 Bc4 is the logical continuation you give. But now what about 20. Nc6? Isn't Black position worse here? I cannot see something convincing for Black."

Spot on - white is much better here. I'm a bit annoying my computer program (Deep Shredder 11) totally missed 20.Nc6, an obvious move that gives white a clear advantage.

Fortunately I did find an improvement for black - he should go 15. ... Bc2! a much better move than Rb8 and after 16.Nfd4 Nd4: 17.Qd7:+ Kd7: 18.Nd4: Be4 19.f3 Bg6 the position is about equal.

I didn't have time to look at the other suggestions which are also interesting. It would appear black can hold his own here because the bishop's pair and white lacking his spanish bishop compensate for the pawn weaknesses.

And more good news - 11.a4!? although a good move is very unlikely to be any white's OTB choice. So white's theoretically best variations in this line involve unlikely moves which one will not come across very often in practice. Indeed, in the 7 games in NICbase both 11.a4!? and 11.Nd4 Nd4: 12.cd4: Ne6 13.Nb1 Rc8 14.Be3 c5 15.Nc3!?, which I think is white's best bet, have not been played at all. 

  
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Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #41 - 01/31/11 at 16:33:25
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Thanks for this Ametanoitos.

Since you're obviously helping me I'll help you as well and post you my full analyses which I wrote down during the weekend.

I'll look into your 11.a4 analyses as soon as I can.

Enjoy!

Note - I used "B" to indicate large advantage for black. As usual, "" means only move.

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Ne4: 6.d4 b5 7.Bb3 d5 8.de5: Be6 9.Nbd2 Nc5 10.c3 Bf5!?

A)      11.Bc2 Bc2: 12.Qc2: d4(!)

a1) 13.cd4: Nd4: 14.Nd4: Qd4: 15.a4! (15.Nf3 Qd3 16.Qd3: Nd3: 17.b3 [17.Rb1 0-0-0 =+; 17.Rd1 0-0-0 =+] Bc5 18.a4 0-0 B) 15. … b4 (15. … ba4: 16.Ra3! ∆ Nf3 +=) 16.Nc4 0-0-0 (!) 17.Be3 (17.Qe2 Qd3 18.Qg4+?! Ne6 ∆ h5, Rd4 B; 17.Qf5+ Rd7 18.Na5 Qd5 19.Be3 Ne6 20.Qf3 Qf3: 21.gf3: Bc5 =+) Qd3=.

a2) 13.b4 d3! 14.Qd1 Na4 15.Qb3 Be7 16.Ne4 (16. e6 f5! 17.Nb1 0-0 18.Bg5 Re8 19.Bf4 a5! 20.ba5: Rb8 21.a6 Nc5 22.Qb2 Ne6: B; 16.c4?! Nb4: 17.cb5: ab5: 18.Ba3 Nc2 19.Be7: Na1: 20.Qa4:! Ra4: 21.Bd8: Kd8: 22.Ra1: Ke7 23.Nb3 Rha8 B) Qd7 17.Neg5 Bg5: 18.Ng5: Ne5: 19.Re1 0-0-0! 20.Re5: f6 21.Re1 fg5: 22.Bg5: Rde8 23.Be3 (23.c4 Qg4!) Qc6! 24.Rac1 Qc4 B.

a3) 13.Nb3(!) d3 14.Qd1 (14.Qb1?! Qd5 15.Be3 Nd7 16.Bd4 Nd8! ∆ c5-c4 B) Qd5 15.Nbd4 (15.Be3!? Rd8 16.Nbd4 Be7 17.b4 Ne6 18.Qd3: (18.Re1!? c5! 19.dc5 Nc5:unclear) Ncd4: 19.Nd4: Bb4:=; 19.Bd4: Nb4:=) Be7 16.b4 Nd4: 17.Nd4: Nd7 18.Qd3: Ne5: 19.Qg3 Ng6 20.Qc7: 0-0 21.Bb2 Rac8 22.Qg3 Bf6 = 23. Rfd1 Qh5! ∆ Be5


B)      11.Nd4 Nd4: 12.cd4: Ne6

b1) 13.Nf3 Be7 14.Be3 0-0 15.Rc1 Qd7 16.Bc2 (16.Qd2 a5! 17.Qc3 a4 18.Bd1 b4! 19.Qc6 Qc6: 20.Rc6: Bb1! 21.Nd2 Bd3! 22.Re1 Bb5 23.Rc1 c5 24.Nf3 [24.dc5:? d4] c4 -+) Be4! 17.Be4: de4: 18.Nd2 Qd5 (or 18. … Nd4: 19.Nb3 c5 =) 19.Qg4 c5 20.dc5: Qe5: 21.Qe4: Qe4: 22.Ne4: f5 23.Nc3: Bc5: =

b2) 13.Nb1 Rc8 14.Be3 (14.Nc3 c5! 15.dc5: d4 =) c5! 15.dc5: (15.Nc3!? c4 16.Bc2 Bc2: 17.Qc2: g6 18.f4 Bh6 19.Qd2 b4 20.Ne2 Qe7 21.f5 Be3:+ 22.Qe3: Qg5! ; 19.Rae1!?) d4! 16.Be6: Be6: 17.Bd4: Bc5: 18.Bc5: Qd1: 19.Rd1: Rc5: = Kopke-Mikhalevski, Pardubice Open 2008 (0-1, 56 moves); 20.f4?! Bg4 21.Re1 Rc2 22.b3 Ke7 23.Na3 Rd2 24.h3 Be6 25.Rec1 Rhd8 with sufficient compensation for the pawn.


Note – looking at all the above I would say probably the 13.Nb1 Rc8 14.Be3 c5! 15.Nc3!? c4 16.Bc2 Bc2: 17.Qc2: g6 18.f4 variation is white’s best bet and might be giving black difficulties especially when followed up by 18. … Bh6 19.Rae1!?, although black is definitely not without counterplay due to his dangerous queen’s side majority. I cannot imagine, however, that in a practical game any white would not take on c5 and allow black to play c4.
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #40 - 01/31/11 at 16:03:16
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I admire your passion and i don't want to discourage you from lookint into this line because i want it to work to but i believe that Black's position is supsect in the lines you give:


1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Nxe4 6. d4 b5 7. Bb3 d5 8. dxe5 Be6 9. Nbd2 Nc5 10. c3 Bf5

11. a4 bxa4 12. Bxa4 Nxa4 13. Qxa4 Qd7 14. Nb3

At this point promising continuations for White are also 14.b3,14. Re1 and 14. Rd1 which you don't mention

14... Be7 15. Re1

If i had the position OTB my first choice would probably be 15. Na5. Also 15. Bg5 is very interesting

15... Rb8 16.Nbd4 Nxd4 17. Nxd4 Qxa4 18. Rxa4 Bd3 19. Rd1 Bc4 is the logical continuation you give. But now what about 20. Nc6? Isn't Black position worse here? I cannot see something convincing for Black.

  
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Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #39 - 01/31/11 at 13:49:00
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and I keep wondering ... what does our good moderator, the esteemed Mr. Markovich, think of 9.Nbd2 Nc5 10.c3 Bf5!? Will it just be "oops -can I take that back?".
  
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Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #38 - 01/31/11 at 09:41:38
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I’ve analysed 11.a4!? as follows
Black should go 11. … ba4:(!) 12.Ba4: Na4:, and now white can choose how to recapture

A) 13.Ra4: Be7 14.Qe2 0-0 15.Ra6: Qd7 15.Nb3 Bg4 16.Ra8: Ra8: 17.Rd1 Rb8 18.Nbd4 Nd4: 19.cd4: Qa4! 20.h3 Bf5 21.Be3 Qa2 =+; 17.Re1 Rb8 18.Nbd4 Nd4: 19.cd4: Qa4 20.Qd3 Rb4! =+ ∆ 21.Bg5 Bf8; 21.Rd1 Bf5! In both cases black has excellent compensation for the pawn.

B) 13.Qa4: Qd7 14.Nb3 Be7 15.Re1 (15.Nbd4 Nd4: 16.Nd4: Qa4: 17.Ra4: Bd7 18.Ra5 c5 =+) Rb8! (∆Bc2) 16.Nfd4 Nd4: 17.Nd4: Qa4: 18.Ra4: Bd3 19.Rd1 Bc4 20.Ra5 Kd7 =+

So black has to defend carefully after 11.a4!? but can obtain some advantage eventually by sacking a pawn for excellent compensation in line A, or getting the bishop’s pair in line B.
  
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Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #37 - 01/30/11 at 07:53:33
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11.a4 seems critical in the position we are discussing.

Chessbase released a DVD by Andrew Martin on the Open Lopez. Maybe he will answer some questions i have about some lines.
  
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Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #36 - 01/27/11 at 09:00:53
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Thanks MNb - spot on, my mistake sorry. If I'm correct black went on to win the game and the ending since the e5 pawn falls and material is even but then black is better because he has bishop vs. knight with pawns on both wings, and is exerting pressure on white's queen side.

So there we go - this is a very interesting sideline which has everything to go for it. It's almost totally unknown so will take white by surprise, but leads to complicated positions where black seems to be doing all right.

Must say I'm quite exited about it because I've been looking for a long time for a good reply to 9.Nbd2 and had even abandoned the Open because I couldn't find one. I've got Glenn Flear's book on the open which is very good, but he's definitely much to optimistic about black's prospects after 9.Nbd2. Again like everyone else (including even Kortschnoi) he doesn't mention 10. ... Bf5!? at all.
  
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Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #35 - 01/26/11 at 22:49:58
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NeverGiveUp wrote on 01/24/11 at 10:16:50:
9.Nbd2 Nc5 10.c3 Bf5 11.Nd4 Nd4: 12.cd4: Ne6! 13.Nb1 (ugly move, but white needs to untangle ...) c5! 14.dc5: d4 15.Be6: Be6: 16.Bd4: Bc5: 17.Bc5: Qd1: 18.Rd1: Bc5:

As 15.Qf3 is much stronger you probably meant 13...Rc8 14.Be3 c5! 15.dxc5 d4 16.Bxe6 Bxe6 17.Bxd4 Bxc5 18.Bxc5 Qxd1 19.Rxd1 Rxc5 with full compensation for the pawn indeed. This is Koepke-Mikhalevski, A, Pardubice 2008.
  

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Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #34 - 01/26/11 at 11:30:03
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NeverGiveUp wrote on 01/26/11 at 10:32:30:
Thanks Kylemeister. You are absolutely right - it's Alexander Mikhalevsky (2437) who has played this variation several times against quite strong opposition and got quite good results with it. One other has played it - Ilya Khmelniker 2443. They might be from Israel?


They are indeed. And Alexander Mikhalevsky is Victor Mikhalevsky's brother, so the Open Lopez connection is probably not a coincidence.
  

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Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #33 - 01/26/11 at 10:32:30
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Thanks Kylemeister. You are absolutely right - it's Alexander Mikhalevsky (2437) who has played this variation several times against quite strong opposition and got quite good results with it. One other has played it - Ilya Khmelniker 2443. They might be from Israel? Khmelniker played it against the strong grandmaster Onischuk (2644) who didn't achieve more than a draw.   

What I find quite surprising is that even a giant like Kortschnoi, who looked at almost anything black and white can do in the Open Ruy Lopez (I have his ECO monographs - great stuff), didn't consider 10. ... Bf5 even though he looked at (and played!) almost every other reasonable move in the position after 9.Nbd2 Nc5 10.c3, including 10. ... d4, 10. ... Bg4, 10. ... Be7 and even 10. ... g6.

My preliminary conclusion is that 10. ...Bf5!? is a very reasonable alternative to the other lines and that it's very hard white to achieve anything substantial against it. Anyone willing to take me on??  Cheesy
  
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Re: Open Ruy Lopez
Reply #32 - 01/24/11 at 16:00:50
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That's not the same Mikhalevski.
  
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