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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Book on the old Indian? (Read 7651 times)
MNb
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Re: Book on the old Indian?
Reply #13 - 02/21/05 at 21:08:35
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The only example I know - but I never did proper research - is Yanofsky-Najdorf, Olympiade 1954. Black succeed to play Bg5 as early as move 11.
The point I want to make, is that interested Black players should not dismiss this idea too early.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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lnn2
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Re: Book on the old Indian?
Reply #12 - 02/21/05 at 04:29:23
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imho the Samisch setup against the old indian must be stronger than against the KID. Because Be7 can't really be activated.

In the KID Black has, amongst others, 6... c5 and the Panno pawn sac line (5. f3 0-0 6. Be3 Nc6 7. Qd2 a6 8. Nge2 Rb8 9. Nc1 e5 10. d5 Nd4 11. Nb3 c5!? 12. dxc6 bxc6 13. Nxd4 exd4 14. Bxd4). These lines can rip apart White's grip and make Black's bishop potentially the strongest piece on the board. 

In the samisch-old-indian (e.g. 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 d6 3.Nc3 Nbd7 4.e4 e5 5. d5 Be7), the only way for Black is to move Nf6 out of the way and play Bg5. Rather one-dimensional no? Mind you i have no idea of specific lines.
  
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MNb
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Re: Book on the old Indian?
Reply #11 - 02/19/05 at 22:49:44
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"it does not seem the samisch can be advantageously avoided."
Why not? This is open for a debate in my opinion.
After 5.Be3 Be7 6.d5 Yanofsky at the Olympiad 1954 did not get very much against Najdorf.
5.f3 Be7 has not been played before, as far as I know.
5.Nge2 c6 keeps the choice open.
Now I will not state, that these lines are superior for Black compared to the normal Sämisch, but I do not see any objection either - except the normal problem of activating Be7.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Book on the old Indian?
Reply #10 - 02/18/05 at 01:38:35
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Quote:
With the Old-Indian Black can strive for Classical System and the Fianchetto System of the KI while avoiding the Sämisch, Four Pawn Attacks and various Bg5 Variations.
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 d6 3.Nc3 Nbd7 4.e4 (or 4.g3 e5 5.Nf3 g6) e5 5.Nf3 (5.Nge2 c6!?; 5.Bg5 Be7) g6 are the transpositions.


interesting point there. although if it does work Black seems to be committing to Nbd7 lines. 

I'm not so certain about avoding the samisch set up though.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 d6  3. Nc3 e5 4. d5 Bf5 5. f3!? e4 is a transposition to Beliavsky-Hickl featured in NIC, which is supposed to be better for White... 

Your line with 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 d6 3.Nc3 Nbd7 4.e4 e5 can be met with 5. Nge2, 5. f3 or even 5. d5 (followed by f3) and it does not seem the samisch can be advantageously avoided. 
  
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Ormechea
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Re: Book on the old Indian?
Reply #9 - 01/19/05 at 12:27:06
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You dont have to worry tomuch on the theory it doesnt chnge like the wind as the other popular systems do. MCO 14 has some lines you could look at but you find alot of material on it in general. This may be to your advantage since no one else will have much either. Chess OPs is a good one for any thing.
  
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HgMan
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Re: Book on the old Indian?
Reply #8 - 01/16/05 at 20:11:34
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Does anyone know of a good book about the old Indian defence, hopefully one like ‘How to Play’ or “Starting Out In’


I noticed today that Yrola & Tella's An Explosive Chess Opening Repertoire for Black has a chapter on the Old Indian with 3 ... Bf5.
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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MNb
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Re: Book on the old Indian?
Reply #7 - 01/15/05 at 22:03:00
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With the Old-Indian Black can strive for Classical System and the Fianchetto System of the KI while avoiding the Sämisch, Four Pawn Attacks and various Bg5 Variations.
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 d6 3.Nc3 Nbd7 4.e4 (or 4.g3 e5 5.Nf3 g6) e5 5.Nf3 (5.Nge2 c6!?; 5.Bg5 Be7) g6 are the transpositions.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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Re: Book on the old Indian?
Reply #6 - 01/15/05 at 11:37:17
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It might be worth looking through Bronstein's books as he used to play 1d4 Nf6 2c4 d6 3Nc3 e5 to avoid the Saemisch -and sometimes he put the B on e7.  Perhaps the 1953 Zurich tournament book?  That has the Averbakh-Kotov game at the very least.
  
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HgMan
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Re: Book on the old Indian?
Reply #5 - 12/28/04 at 21:22:02
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There's an interesting Old Indian game in Dvoretsky's Positional Play.  Black is on the losing end of the "lesson," but the game served as inspiration and the template in my own weak attempts to revive the line.  I won one and got clobbered in the second in a weekly evening tournament in Vancouver, and promptly abandoned it for more comfortable pastures.  I think I also managed to bamboozle a draw in a correspondence game after blundering off a pawn.  I don't have names, etc., but these are old games full of mistakes.  The first is suggestive of what should happen (though White was more than a little accommodating).  The second is more a what not to do kind of lesson.

UBC Swiss 4/14/1998

1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 d6 3 Nc3 Nbd7 4 Nf3 c6 5 e4 e5 6 Be2 Be7 7 0-0 0-0 8 h3 exd4 9 Nxd4 Nc5 10 Bf3 a5 11 a4 Bd7 12 Bg5 h6 13 Bf4 Ne6 14 Bg3 Ng5 15 Re1 Re8 16 Nf5 Nxf3+ 17 Qxf3 Bxf5 18 Qxf5 Qb6 19 Qf3 Rad8 20 Qe2 d5 21 cxd5 cxd5 22 e5 Bc5 23 Qb5 Qxb5 24 Nxb5 Ne4 25 Rac1 b6 26 Kf1 Nxg3+ 27 fxg3 d4 28 Rcd1 d3 29 g4 g5 30 g3 Re6 31 b3 f6 32 exf6 Rxf6+ 33 Kg2 Rf2+ 34 Kh1 d2 35 Re4 Rd3 36 Rc4 Re3 0-1

UBC Swiss 5/19/1998

1 c4 e5 2 Nc3 Nf6 3 Nf3 d6 4 g3 Be7 5 Bg2 c6 6 e4 Nbd7 7 0-0 0-0 8 d4 exd4 9 Nxd4 Re8 10 Nf5 Ne5 11 Nxe7+ Rxe7 12 b3 Qc7 13 Bg5 Ned7 14 Qd2 h6 15 Bf4 Ne5 16 Rad1 Ne8 17 h3 b6 18 Be3 Bb7 19 f4 Nd7 20 g4 Rd8 21 Bf2 f6 22 h4 Rf7 23 Bg3 a6 24 g5 b5 25 gxh6 gxh6 26 f5 bxc4 27 bxc4 Nc5 28 Qxh6 Rh7 29 Qe3 a5 30 Rf2 Ba6 31 Bf1 Rg7 32 Kh2 Qf7 33 Rd4 Nb7 34 c5 Bxf1 35 Rxf1 Nxc5 36 e5 Qe7 37 e6 Rh7 {and it was about now--in time trouble--that I decided that these evening tournaments weren't for me...} 38 Rfd1 Nb7 39 Ne2 d5 40 Nf4 Nbd6  41 Ng6 Qc7? 42 e7 Rb8 43 Qe6+ Kg7 44 Rg4 1-0.

These games are far from ideal starters, but I continue to have a soft spot for this old opening, and I would love to discuss it further!
« Last Edit: 12/29/04 at 11:38:28 by HgMan »  

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MNb
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Re: Book on the old Indian?
Reply #4 - 08/07/04 at 09:36:19
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<relevant plans> Do not ask me about the critical lines, but three typical plans for Black are:
A e7-e5xd4, Re8 and Bf8 pressuring the White e4-pawn.
B a6, c6, Rb8, b5 searching counterplay on the queen's wing
C the Pickett shuffle Qe8, Be7-d8-a5/b6/c7 activating the passive king's bishop.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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Re: Book on the old Indian?
Reply #3 - 07/25/04 at 17:47:32
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I'm not 100% sure which exact set-up is the Old Indian, but if it's 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5 without a black kingside fianchetto, you'll find a lot of useful stuff in Yrjola & Tellas "An Explosive Chess Opening Repertoire for Black", plus some interesting other stuff like 2.-Bg4 and Bf5, which I suppose isn't an OI proper, which I think is basically just a Philidor (Hanham) set-up against closed games as well?
  
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Re: Book on the old Indian?
Reply #2 - 07/07/04 at 10:42:30
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If it's not too off-topic, could someone give an overview of the most critical lines here and relevant plans according to modern theory/praxis?
  
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Re: Book on the old Indian?
Reply #1 - 07/07/04 at 07:47:43
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I told Everyman the other day they ought to have one of these. I don't think there is one. And I don't think they've any plans to take my advice, either, I'm afraid.
  
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Book on the old Indian?
05/16/04 at 01:09:01
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Hello all

Does anyone know of a good book about the old Indian defence, hopefully one like ‘How to Play’ or “Starting Out In’

Thanks  Wink
  
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