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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 (Read 38337 times)
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3
Reply #22 - 06/15/12 at 13:06:53
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Hi,

   The best reply I think is to play 4..ed5 5.Nd5 Nd5 6.Qd5-d6 followed by Be7.I believe the position to equal in all variations.

Well,If you want to play complicated positions you can try to change the move order.
For instance 1.d4-Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.c4 c5..(though you will need to study 4.Nc3 ).

as far as 4....b5 (instead of ed) is considered.I find white's position pleasent.

Hope this makes your decision easier Smiley
  
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3
Reply #21 - 05/25/12 at 02:52:26
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Personally I would much rather be White in these lines. White is better than in the initial position.
  
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3
Reply #20 - 05/17/12 at 12:49:11
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Seems to depend a bit on how devoted black is to drumming up tactics Smiley 

If they're going to play 4.. ed and follow it up by playing solidly then its meant to be a rather mild += at best. But a lot of benoni folk (as you can see here) won't feel comfortable doing that, so either won't play those positions very well or will try some earlier (not so sound) deviation.
  
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3
Reply #19 - 05/17/12 at 10:59:35
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Thought I'd post a comment to lift this up and see if anyone would like to share recent insights? Is Nc3 a strong += for white, with relatively little risk?
  
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3
Reply #18 - 09/15/11 at 05:21:42
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Markovich (from another thread here but it seems more appropriate here)

Quote:
Blast!  What I meant was 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 b5 5.dxe6 fxe6 6.Nxb5 d5 7.Nc3! Be7 8.e4 (8.e3!? +=) d4 9.e5 dxc3 10.Qxd8+ Bxd8 11.exf6 Bxf6 12.Rb1! Bb7 13.bxc3 Bxf3 14.gxf3 Bxc3+ 15.Ke2! += and so forth.  Terribly sorry about that.

6...Nc6 is interesting but I can't understand your analysis after that, which doesn't comport with the preceding moves.

8...O-O is possible, but I think it's one more case of the gambiteer having about half a pawn's worth of comp for his pawn.

At the end of the day, I think that the Benoni player's best move is 2.


Just stumbled on it again and I thought I'd see what Houdini thinks.  It gives 11...cxb2 (instead of 11...Bxf6) 12.f7+ Kf8! 12.Bxb2 Nd7 as being OK for Black.  Didn't look anything else but maybe this is still playable.
  
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3
Reply #17 - 01/28/11 at 11:44:20
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"Why 2..c5?"

           3.c3 d5            
                 4.Bg5 Ne4, for example 
                 4.Bf4 Qb6 etc when you don't necessarily have to restrict your c8B later on
           3.e3 g6, for example

On "my level", where many opponents play 2.Nf3 with the intention of continuing with the Torre or London System, 2..c5 is the more practical choice if one has both the NID and the MB in his repertoire. (I like the Black side of the Torre/London better without early ..e6.)

And one needs to study 3.d5 e6 (and "forgive and forget" if White answers it with 4.c4) 4.Nc3 b5!? in order to stick with the idea of playing an active game. On this level (u2300), chances are that Black would be the better prepared player.
  
as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3
Reply #16 - 01/25/11 at 22:57:07
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Query:

If a player is trying to avoid playing lines in the pseudo-benoni category without c2-c4, why would he play 2...c5?  Why not play 2...e6 (cough - like everybody else - cough) even if he intends 3...c5?

3 Nc3 d5 followed by ...c5 looks dynamic if not Benoni-esque.
3 g3 c5 gets a good version of this line.
3 Bg5 is the Torre, which is fine for Black (and since Black has to be prepared for Bg5 systems due to the Hodgson 2 Bg5 anyway...).
Others are minor (Colle, C/Z, London...) and shouldn't scare Black because he can't avoid that nonsense anyway.  White can always answer ...c5 with e2-e3 or c2-c3.
  
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3
Reply #15 - 12/21/10 at 05:43:51
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George Robinson wrote on 12/21/10 at 05:20:26:
Yes TalJechin, you shared right thoughts, surely black benefits when moved that way as you instructed. But its better to cover the requirements before having the position changed from d5 to d6. Though some curious things to be faced, its better to make benefit that way. As to the information i got from a paper published in dissertation writing services, its not creates all the processes simple, but you can make it with your efforts to come up with slight changes.


LOL, spambot chinglish post of the year!
  
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3
Reply #14 - 12/21/10 at 05:20:26
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Yes TalJechin, you shared right thoughts, surely black benefits when moved that way as you instructed. But its better to cover the requirements before having the position changed from d5 to d6. Though some curious things to be faced, its better to make benefit that way. As to the information i got from a paper published in dissertation writing services, its not creates all the processes simple, but you can make it with your efforts to come up with slight changes.
  
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3
Reply #13 - 11/01/10 at 19:14:09
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How about delaying e6xd5 for a move? I don't play this stuff from either side, but after a brief look, I think black benefits from having d6 / e4 in before trading on d5.

1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 c5 3. d5 d6 4. Nc3 e6 5. e4 exd5 6. Nxd5 Nxd5 7. Qxd5 Nc6 8. Bc4 (8. Ng5 Qe7 9. Bc4 f6 10. Qf7+ Kd7 11. Be6+ Kc7 12. Bxc8 fxg5 13. Qxe7+ Bxe7 14. Be6 Nd4 15. Bb3 Bf6 16. Kd1 Nxb3 17. axb3 Rhe8 18. Re1 a6 19. f3 Re6 20. c3 Rae8 21. Bd2 g4 22. Kc2 Kc6 23. c4 Be5 24. f4 Bd4 25. Kd3 Bxb2 26. Ra5 Rh6 27. Rh1 Rhe6 28. Re1 Rh6 29. Rh1 Bf6 30. b4 Bd8 31. b5+ Kd7 32. Ra4 axb5 33. cxb5 Bb6 34. Bc3 Re7 35. g3 Rh5 36. Rc4 d5 37. exd5 Rxd5+ 38. Kc2 Re2+ 39. Kc1 g6 40. h3 gxh3 41. Rxh3 h5 42. g4 hxg4 43. Rg3 Rh5 44. Kd1 Ra2 45. Re4 Rh3 46. Ree3 Rxg3 47. Rxg3 Ra3 48. Kc2 Ba5 49. Rd3+ Ke6 50. Re3+ Kf7 { 0-1 Hebden,M (2556)-Plaskett,J (2483)/England 1999/EXT 2000}) 8... Be6 9. Qd3 Nb4 10. Qe2 Bxc4 11. Qxc4 d5 12. exd5 Qxd5 13. Qxd5 Nxd5 14. Bg5 f6 15. O-O-O Rd8 16. Bd2 c4 17. Rhe1+ Kf7 18. Re4 c3 19. Be3 b6 20. Ra4 a5 21. Rad4 Nxe3 22. fxe3 Rxd4 23. exd4 cxb2+ 24. Kxb2 Bd6 25. Rd3 b5 26. Rc3 Ke6 27. Rc6 a4 28. Kc3 Kd5 29. Rb6 b4+ 30. Kd3 Rc8 31. Rb5+ Ke6 32. d5+ Kf7 33. Rb7+ Kg6 34. Nd4 Rc3+ 35. Ke4 f5+ 36. Nxf5 Rc4+ 37. Kd3 Rc3+ 38. Ke4 { 1/2-1/2 Gulko,B (2600)-Szmetan,J (2405)/I American Continental, Cali COL 2001}
  
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3
Reply #12 - 11/22/09 at 20:20:12
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Reverse wrote on 11/22/09 at 16:08:25:
Does John Emms cover the Czech Benoni in the theory section? Is it a good complete coverage?


Yes, Emms covers all Benoni systems in his ChessPublishing theory section on the Nimzo/Benoni. I'm not sure how detailed his Czech Benoni coverage is, as I am not a subscriber.
  
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3
Reply #11 - 11/22/09 at 16:08:25
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Does John Emms cover the Czech Benoni in the theory section? Is it a good complete coverage?
  
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3
Reply #10 - 09/07/09 at 15:34:57
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I had a very entertaining game in this line against Mark Hebden a few years ago. Goodness knows what was going on in the middle-game! The ending must have been OK for me, but I messed it up in time-trouble...

Mark Hebden v Paul Cumbers, Nottingham Open 2004
1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 b5 5.dxe6 fxe6 6.Nxb5 Qa5+ 7.Nc3 d5 8.e3 Nc6 9.Bb5 Bd7 10.O-O Rb8 11.a4 Bd6 12.e4 d4 13.e5 Nxe5 14.Ne4 Nxe4 15.Nxe5 Bxb5 16.axb5 Qxa1 17.Qg4 Bxe5 18.Qxe6+ Kf8 19.Qxe5 Re8 20.Qf5+ Nf6 21.Bh6 Re1 22.Qxf6+ Ke8 23.Qc6+ Kf7 24.Qd7+ Kf6 25.Qxg7+ Ke6 26.Qg4+ Kf7 27.Qf5+ Ke8 28.Qe5+ Rxe5 29.Rxa1 Re6 30.Bf4 Rf8 31.g3 Rf7 32.c4 Re2 33.b3 d3 34.Rd1 Rd7 35.Be3 Rc2 36.Bxc5 d2 37.Kf1 Rc1 38.Ke2 Rxd1 39.Kxd1 Rd3 40.Bxa7 Rxb3 41.Kxd2 Kd7 42.Bc5 h5 43.Kc2 Rf3 44.h4 Ke6 45.Be3 Kd6 46.Kd3 Ke5 47.Kc3 Rf8 48.Bf4+ 1-0
  
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3
Reply #9 - 03/01/08 at 23:16:38
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[quote author=Wonsnnelg link=1085643061/0#5 date=1085785457]I've done a little more research on this line but my newest source is from 1999.  However, coupled with some games from Chessbase at least this can serve as some analysis to comment and expand on. 

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 

A.  4...Qa5?! 5.Bd2 b5 6.Ne4 Qb6 7.Nxf6+ gxf6 8.e4 Rg8 didn't work to well for Black in Akesson-Hector 1986.

B.  4...exd5 5.Nxd5 Nxd5 6.Qxd5 d6 (According to NCO this is best.  Other moves allowing White a slight advantage.  (so your idea seems correct Michael) 7.Ng5 Qe7 8.Bf4 Be6 9.Nxe6 fxe5 10.Qd2 e5 11.Bg5 Qe6 12.e4 Nc6 13.c3 h6 14.Be3 0-0-0 15.b3 Be7 = Wells-Ward 1987 from NCO.

C.  4...a6!? (probably ?!, but "A Killer Chess OPening Repertoire" has 4...g6 5.e4 d6 ("to prevent e5") 6.Bb5 ("taking advantage of Black's move order"), so I wondered if Black might insert 4...a6 and after 5.a4 continue with 5...g6, but White should play...) 5.e4 b5 6.e5 when I think he has the advantage but it's not entirely clear so someone might want to look deeper into this.

D.  4...b5!? (I wasn't too keen on this at first but after looking at some games, and giving it a quick once over on Fritz, this is definitely what I would try right now in a must win situation.)

  I.  5.dxe5 fxe6 6.Nxb5 Qa5+ 7.Nc3 d5 8.e3 a6!? (The previously mentioned Speelman-Alburt game had gone 8...Be7 9.Be2 0-0 10.0-0 Nc6 11.Bd2 Qd8 12.b3 Kh8 13.Bd3 Bb7 14.e4 with NCO giving White a slight advantage.  Here Black aims for a more agressive piece setup.) 9.Be2 Bd6 10.0-0 Qc7 11.h3 0-0 12.b3 Nbd7 13.Bb2 Bb7 14.Re1 Rae8 and 0-1 in 40 in Cosma-Senft.

II.  5.Bg5 b4 6.Ne4 Bb7 (NCO stops here with unclear) 7.c4 (Hebden vs. Van der Weid went 7.Bxf6 gxf6 8.c4 bxc3, but how about 8...f5!?.  Btw, Hebden won that game.) 7...bxc3 (7...Be7!?, Fritz) 8.Bxf6 c2 9.Qxc2 (9.Bxd8!?) 9...gxf6 10.dxe6 fxe6 11.Nfd2 Bxe4 12.Qxe4 Nc6 13.Qh4 h5 14.e3 Rb8 15.Rb1 f5 16.Qg3 Qf6 17.Nc4 e5 18.Qh3 (it looked strange to me to allow ...d5 so easily, Fritz gives 18.Rd1 Qe6 19.Na3!? d5 20.Bb5 Rb6 as about equal.  Clearly not your everday run of the mill position.) d5 19.Nd2 c4 20.Be2 Bb4, 0-1 Winkler-Simmelink 1999.    [/quote]

I may have mentioned this elseware, but for those of us that suscribe to the Nimzo/Benoni section, GM Emms has added even more games on the 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 d6 4.Nc3 b5 variation (none since 2005 but this isn't exactly all the rage).  I mention it again because it's another variation that keeps popping up in various threads.
  
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Re: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3
Reply #8 - 02/06/06 at 21:34:49
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So, that is what happens. A young duo (let's call them Raetsky and Chetverik for instance) does the effort to clear this (pseudo-benoni) mess up once and for all (remember all those books that stop short of entering this territory) and get nothing but scorn for that. (See other thread on this forum)
Next thing you know you find yourself in such a position and you remember it is a most despicable opening choice your adversary made,  he ought to get punished for that, and somewhere there must be a killer move, right ?
Good luck to you all !
  
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