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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Anyone ever tried 1.e3 (Read 8037 times)
Uberdecker
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Re: Anyone ever tried 1.e3
Reply #25 - 06/01/06 at 14:15:34
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I didn't have any specific variations in mind, (although I'm most familiar with my own choice of 5. ...Qb6 ; 6. a3 c4 in the main line) but Black often does best to castle Queenside in the Advance, and ...a6 constitutes something of a target in that case. Also the -a6 square is not available to Black's pieces, in particular the Queen, but I'll admit that this is not the most relevant factor one could think of!
The "O'Kelly treatment" consists of ...Bd7 and ...Bb5, which I find rather hard to believe, but otherwise the ...a6 tempo is at best useless.
Note however that a Milner-Barry Gambit reversed would be even more dubious than its original form!

After 1. e3 d5 ; 2. c4 e6 ; 3. Ktf3 Ktf6 one idea is 4. Qc2 Be7 (or 4. ...Ktbd7 ; 5. Ktc3 Bd6 ; 6. g4) ; 5. g4. By comparison with the Shabalov variation of the Slav, Black can play ...c5 in one move, but the fact that White's d-pawn is not on the 4th rank makes it more difficult to open the c-file.
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Anyone ever tried 1.e3
Reply #24 - 06/01/06 at 11:29:05
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Just out of curiousity which variation of the Advance French is worse for Black if he already has ...a6 included.  Most of the variations I can think of this would be beneficial. 

Your treatment of 1.e3 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 is certainly more dynamic.  What if Black plays 3...Nf6 so he can decide later on ...c5 or ...c6 or other.
  
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Uberdecker
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Re: Anyone ever tried 1.e3
Reply #23 - 06/01/06 at 09:38:00
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It is true that 1. e3 d5 ; 2. a3 e5 ; 3. c4 c6 ; 4. d4 ed ; 5. ed transposes with colours reversed to 1. e4 c5 ; 2. c3 e6 ; 2. d4 d5 ; 3. ed ed, where the ...a6 tempo would be useful since it would prevent 4. Bb5 which is one of White's main ideas.
But as a player of the French, I would not be happy to have moved my a-pawn in the Advance Variation, although the position arising after 1. e4 e6 ; 2. d4 d5 ; 3. e5 c5 ; 4. c3 a6 ; 5. Ktf3 has in fact occured in practice, albeit mainly through the Sicilian-O'Kelly Variation move-order (1. e4 c5 ; 2. Kf3 a6?! ; 3. c3 e6 ; 4. d4 d5 ; 5. e5) and through lack of good alternatives...

After 1. e3 d5 ; 2. c4 (2. Ktf3) e6 I do not suggest that White play the immediate 3. d4, but rather develop first and only make this advance once Black has commited himself to a particular structure (e.g. after ...c6, thus transposing to the Slav).
For example, 3. Ktf3 c5 (I assume Frendo meant to type 3. d4 c5) ; 4. b3 Ktf6 ; 5. Bb2 Be7 ; 6. cd ed ; 7. d4 with good play against the IQP.
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Anyone ever tried 1.e3
Reply #22 - 05/30/06 at 19:30:36
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Glad you enjoyed my odd humor.

After 1.e3 d5 2.a3 e5 3.c4, 3...c6 doesn't give any edge to Black.  If that were the case then 1.e4 c5 2.c3 e6 3.d4 d5 wouldn't be a viable defence for Black.  I agree that 2.a3 Nf6 is perfectly fine as long as Black sticks to normal development.  Not really sure 2.c4 fights for an edge either though.  How should White continue after 2...e6 with one idea being the symmetrical 3.d4 d5 which I guess is some sort of Tarrasch perhaps.

Yes, will look more at 3.a3 in the Uberdeker!
  
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Uberdecker
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Re: Anyone ever tried 1.e3
Reply #21 - 05/30/06 at 17:32:13
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Dear Frendo,

The opposition! That's a very good one!!
I'm even adding one of these ridiculous animated faces in acknowledgement of your wit!

                                                           Grin

1. e3 d5 ; 2. a3 e5 ; 3. c4 d4 ; 4. ed ed ; 5. b4 would be a good idea if it weren't for 3. ...c6, with a solid edge for Black. Also 2. ...Ktf6 is more than satisfactory.
But both 2. c4 and 2. Ktf3 still enable White to fight for the advantage. If you're interested, I'd be happy to discuss my 1. e3 repertoire (cf. previous post) in more detail.

                                                                 Regards,
                                                                      Hubert

P.S. We haven't finished discussing 3. a3 in the UD Defence thread
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Anyone ever tried 1.e3
Reply #20 - 05/30/06 at 15:46:28
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White can usually manage to play Black variations of the French exchange if he wants to anyway.  For example 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Bd3 Nc6 5.Bb5 or 4.Be2 Nf6 5.Bd3 and you get the idea.  By something like 1.e3 e5 2.d3 d5 3.d4 exd4 4.exd4 you give Black the opportunity to play 4...Be7 and the possibilty of regaining the opposition so to speak.   Grin

Another interesting possibility for White is 1.e3 d5 2.a3!?, which gives White several possibilities of reversed openings.  2...c5 3.Nc3 (Reversed Uberdeker Opening), 3.Nf3 of course, 3.c4 with the idea of 3...d4 4.exd4 and an early b4.  The same b4 idea might be good after 1.e3 d5 2.a3 e5 3.c4 d4 4.exd4 exd4 5.b4 although at a glance I'm not sure that's so inspiring, but there are of course a lot of other possibilities.
  
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Uberdecker
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Re: Anyone ever tried 1.e3
Reply #19 - 05/30/06 at 13:36:26
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Dear BCKM,

  I take it then, that you (just as I) prefer the Black side of the exchange French, since you could have reached the White side with 2. d4 ed ; 3. ed
  
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bckm
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Re: Anyone ever tried 1.e3
Reply #18 - 05/30/06 at 00:37:45
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I'm a French Defense player, and I've often toyed with the idea of 1.e3 e5 2.d3 d5 3.d4, with a reversed French without the extra tempo!   Wink  The only problem is that Black must really cooperate, since if he/she does something other than ...d5 and ...e5 on his/her first two moves, you're out of your "book"...   Cheesy

I used to play 2.e3, after 1.a3 (if Black didn't play, for example, 1...e5, but that's a discussion for a separate Forum page, perhaps), but I'm assuming that doesn't count...  Wink
  
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JEH
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Re: Anyone ever tried 1.e3
Reply #17 - 05/25/06 at 15:57:42
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No Fort Knox  Shocked Next you'll be telling us you don't have an opening called the Monkey's Bum  Roll Eyes

As for the e3/g3/Bg2/Ne2 thing, yep it's tranposing into reversed Hippo. If you ever see a Hippo reversing, make sure you aren't in its way!

Maybe it should be called the Hippopotomus Attack! Now you just have to wangle some way to call it the Hyper-Accelerated Hippopotomous Attack and you'd really have an opening name going  Cheesy

A guy called Pafu wrote a book called "The Beginners Game" about it" which I think  might be the worst chess book ever written  Tongue

Good for a surprise or Blitz, but difficult for White to get equality if Black knows what to do.


  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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castlerock
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Re: Anyone ever tried 1.e3
Reply #16 - 05/25/06 at 14:48:06
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Perhaps it is half hippopotamus. I don't know and we Indians don't care much about names. For us Fort Knox is non existent. Bd7 Rubenstien is widely known. Wink

Anyway, 1.e3 reminded me of this thread in which I have more than surface knowledge, being an affected coach. Grin Didn't have time to search and post the link at the time of original post.

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1125751204
  

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Uberdecker
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Re: Anyone ever tried 1.e3
Reply #15 - 05/25/06 at 13:48:40
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You've just described half a hippopotamus. This is not an independant contribution to 1.e3, since, as you have stated, one could just as well start with 1. g3 and one can also play it with Black. I suppose White's most reasonable plan is to aim for a King's Indian-type structure at some point with e4, answering ...d5 with f4. Not very enticing though...
  
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castlerock
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Re: Anyone ever tried 1.e3
Reply #14 - 05/25/06 at 10:15:33
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There is a system opening with 1.e3 which is fairly famous in some pockets of India. 1.e3,2.g3,3.Bg2,4.Ne2,5.0-0 in varying move orders. (Reverse it for black). Depending on opponent’s play they decide about central pawn structure c4 and d4 or c4 and d3. People try to punish the opening play and over extend. Here, players are pretty careful with e3-g3 or e6-g6 systems. It’s a one size fit all system. Unfortunately, it works.
  

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Uberdecker
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Re: Anyone ever tried 1.e3
Reply #13 - 05/20/06 at 13:19:47
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1. e3 is a fully fledged opening in its own right. I have developped a full repertoire in which White can maintain the independant significance of his conception against each of Black's replies. Of course I'm not claiming a clear White edge in all lines, but this would be very hard to prove for any first move.
1. ...e5 ; 2. Ktf3
1. ...d5 ; 2. c4/ 2. Ktf3
1. ...c5 ; 2. b3/ 2. Ktf3
1. ...Ktf6 ; 2. g4
1. ...g6 ; 2. h4
1. ...d6 ; 2. b4
1. ...e6 ; 2. f4/ 2. Ktf3
1. ...f5 ; 2. Bd3
1. ...Ktc6 ; 2. a3/ 2.Bb5
1. ...b6 ; 2. Be2 Bb7 ; 3. Bf3
1. ...a6 ; 2. c4/ 2. Be2
1. ...g5 ; 2. h4
etc

Quite amazingly, Kasparov chose to transpose to a Queen's Gambit Accepted in his first 2 White games against Fritz3 : 1. ...d5 ; 2. c4 dc ; 3. Bxc4 e5 ; 4. d4 but went for the much stronger approach of a Reversed Open Sicilian in the third. The computer promptly collapsed with an early ...f5, but White is much better in any case.

The idea of 1. ...d5 ; 2. Ktc3 e5 ; 3. Qh5 as suggested by Tafl should be compared with line 1. d4 e6 ; 2. c4 ; 3. Ktc3 Bb4 ; 4. e4 Qh5. In my opinion the side with the big centre is much better off with the c-pawn on its original square where its not blocking the K-Bishop and is in fact defending it when it goes to -d3 (-d6). Also the inclusion of the pin 3. Ktc3 Bb4 favours Black. So I would be quite happy to play Black in our 1.e3 example, but all this is not very relevant anyway, since Black has 2. ...Ktf6 when White has no reasonable plan.

Nimzowitsch himself often employed 1. e3 , but always ended up transposing either to an English or a Reversed QID. The amusing final Nimzo-Tarrasch encounter (I'll look up the date and place) went 1. e3 e5 ; 2. Ktc3 d5 ; 3. d4 ed (3. ...e4 is good for Black) ; 4. Qxd4 Ktf6 ; 5. e4 when the cheeky Nimzo had transposed to the Black side of his beloved KP Defence and went on to score a nice victory...
« Last Edit: 05/20/06 at 17:02:59 by Uberdecker »  
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H-HH
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Re: Anyone ever tried 1.e3
Reply #12 - 05/20/06 at 10:33:57
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doesn't deserve a diagram?
i don´t think a move that was played by kasparov doesn't deserve  one Cool
  

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tafl
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Re: Anyone ever tried 1.e3
Reply #11 - 06/23/05 at 06:20:27
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An independent idea is 1.e3 d5 2.Nc3 e5 3.Qh5!? Which is a lot harder to meet than you would expect. Probably 3...Qd6 with approximate equality is best.
  

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