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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C47: The Belgrade Gambit (Read 105774 times)
Markovich
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Re: The Belgrade Gambit
Reply #170 - 04/03/08 at 01:08:42
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CraigEvans wrote on 04/02/08 at 10:46:45:
The longer books keep on recommending 5...Be7 for black, the longer I'll be playing this as white! Viva les Belgrade!  Cheesy


In deference to our French chessfriends, that would have to be, "Vive le Gambit Belgrade!" I believe.

But anyway, how do you play after 11...0-0?  My idea would be 12.Nxd4 Bd7 13.Qf3 Qe8.  Go ahead, take my b-pawn.
  

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Markovich
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Re: The Belgrade Gambit
Reply #169 - 04/02/08 at 13:35:10
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Craig,

I have no confidence in Bogoliubov's 4...Bb4.  There is some good analysis of it here if you look back a few years.

I haven't seen our chessfriend TopNotch around here in a long time, but if he reads this, maybe he'll post on the subject of your 7.Qe2.  I will myself once my inorganic analytical partner and I have had the chance to look at it.
  

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Re: The Belgrade Gambit
Reply #168 - 04/02/08 at 12:50:58
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CraigEvans wrote on 04/02/08 at 10:46:45:
The longer books keep on recommending 5...Be7 for black, the longer I'll be playing this as white!

You'll be glad to know that Marin recommends it too, then! Wink
  
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CraigEvans
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Re: The Belgrade Gambit
Reply #167 - 04/02/08 at 10:46:45
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I'd missed the last few posts on this where 4...Bb4 is discussed - I know it's not "strictly" a Belgrade but it is a feasible anti-Belgrade option. Sadly I'm not subscribed to this section (hope to change that soon), but what was Renet's assessment of the line? I've certainly scored close to 100% after 5.Nxe5 and was just under the impression that black gets a worse game in pretty much every line?

With regards to the Belgrade proper, I've certainly scored highly with the Trakjovic line, though sadly managed to refute Bruce's suggestion in his (otherwise fantastic) work on the opening - the exchange sacrifice in the line 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.Nd5 Be7 6.Bc4 Nxe4 7.O-O O-O 8.Re1 Nf6 9.Rxe7?! Nxe7 10.Nxf6+ gxf6 just doesn't quite hold up to close scrutiny. However, I think 7.Qe2! (the aforementioned Gutman Variation) causes black some huge problems, and again I've scored 100% with this line; http://team4545league.org/pgnplayer/pgnplayer.php?ID=5910&Board=2 is a game I played on ICC's team4545 league where I basically won a game from preparation alone - having reached the position after 15...e5 in a previous game I'd analysed afterwards and found the crushing 16.Nxe5! move (which I missed first time around), and therefore didn't really have to think until the endgame.

Now, if 5...Be7 is such a good equaliser, black either needs a serious improvement in the above game after 7.Qe2, or needs to accept that actually ...Nxe4 is too dangerous and therefore play into the quieter waters of perhaps 6...d6 (which was discussed previously, at great length, with some fantastic variations from both TopNotch and Bruce; as far as I'm aware black was struggling to find equality in those lines too).

My gut feeling, along with my practical experience, is that 5...Nb4 is the only really critical move, after which black gets at least equality. 6.Nxd4 Nxe4 7.Nf5?, as pointed out by Monson, is weak (I won a 4NCL game in 9 moves as black in this line - the amusing continuation was 7...c6 8.Nxg7+?? (lovely tactical idea, but...) Bxg7 9.Nxb4 Qe7 (oops!)0-1), and therefore 7.Nb5 has to be tried, in which white seems to get enough play (but black's chances certainly aren't worse).

The longer books keep on recommending 5...Be7 for black, the longer I'll be playing this as white! Viva les Belgrade!  Cheesy
  

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Re: The Belgrade Gambit
Reply #166 - 12/30/07 at 19:28:12
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The move 6.Nxd4 is playable but it don't cause serious problems to Black ( particularlly I would prefer 6.Bc4 ).

As is pointed in Monson's book as a general rule of thumb White should avoid taking the pawn on d4 until Black has played .. d6.

Here another previous game with the same line: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.d4 exd4 5.Nd5 Be7 6.Nxd4 0-0 7.Nb5 (7.Be2!?) 7..Nxe4 8.Nbxc7 (8.Bd3) 8..Bc5 9.Qf3? (9.Be3) 9..Nxf2 10.Be3 Bxe3 11.Nxe3 Nxh1 12.Nxa8 Qh4+ 13.Kd2 Qb4+ (13..d5! with idea ..Bg4 and ..Rxa8 -+ quickly) 14.c3 Qxb2+ etc. 0-1 (35) Mahjoob,Morteza-Croad,Nicolas; World jr. ch., Yerevan,2000

As it has been noted before, the best way to respond Belgrade is 5..Nb4 and according my point of view also 5..h6!?
  
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Re: The Belgrade Gambit
Reply #165 - 12/27/07 at 01:39:28
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I was rather hesitant to reactivate this hornets nest again, but since Tony covered this variation in his recent Nov 07' update, I finally decided what the hay. Here is the game from that update:

Toufighi,H (2385) - Howell,D (2527) [C47]
WYb18 Kemer TUR (8), 25.11.2007

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.Nd5 Be7 6.Nxd4 0-0 7.Nb5 Bc5 8.Nbxc7 Nxe4 9.Bd3 Nxf2 10.Bxh7+ Kxh7 11.Qh5+ Kg8 12.Bg5 Re8+ 13.Kf1 Re5 0-1

Apparently the player of the White pieces is a noted OTB Belgrade Gambit expert, perhaps that notoriety in part was responsible for his untimely undoing.  Undecided

Toppy Smiley  
  

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Re: The Belgrade Gambit
Reply #164 - 01/14/07 at 03:36:20
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photophore wrote on 05/18/05 at 13:45:19:
Excuse my ingenuity , but nobody has told about what is the most obvious reply :
1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 d4 exd4 5 Nd5 Nxd5
What are the White trumps in this line?


Here's an example from the current Hastings tournament (although 11d6! is better than Nxd4: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1442331
And here's a nice win at the high GM level against 4....Bb4 http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1419012
  
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Re: The Belgrade Gambit
Reply #163 - 07/11/06 at 16:20:30
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John_Toscano wrote on 01/09/05 at 07:40:02:
When I lost an important game in the line 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 h5!? and afterwards couldn't find a good way to answer this move, then saw the game widely published, it was time to give it up.


sorry John Kiss
  

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Re: The Belgrade Gambit
Reply #162 - 07/09/06 at 17:23:29
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bamonson wrote on 07/27/04 at 17:05:52:
Craig wrote:

B) 5...Nb4(!)

This move is often given a ! in theoretical manuals.

CRAIG:
White usually replies 6.Bc4, and then 6...Nbxd5 7.exd5 Bb4+ 8.Bd2 Qe7+ 9.Qe2 Bxd2+! 10.Kxd2 Qxe2+ 11.Kxe2 c5! 12.dxc6 bxc6 13.Nxd4 d5 gives black the advantage. I'd be interested to see what improvements Bruce has for white here (I do not own a copy of his book unfortunately).

MONSON:
I personally don't care for 6.Bc4, though it is playable.  And Craig is correct regarding black's 12...bxc6!, which is indeed the strongest move by black here.  However, it doesn't really lead to an advantage per se for black.  We can talk about this more, but for now I'd like to address the other moves at white's disposal.

CRAIG:
6.Nxf6+ Qxf6 7.Bb5 Bc5 8.O-O O-O 9.e5 Qb6 10.Be2 d6 is also better for black, so 5...Nb4 may be the way for black to cast doubt on the gambit's validity.

MONSON:
Actually, 6.Nxf6+ is fully playable, but 7.Bb5 is not the correct follow-up.  White should play 6.Bc4 Bc5 7.O-O d6 when there are several important lines.  These are some of the most complex lines in the BG.

CRAIG:
6.Nxd4 Nxe4 7.Nb5 Nxd5 8.Qxd5 Qe7 9.Nxc7+?! is an interesting piece sac from junior which I don't believe is sound, but seems quite dangerous after 9...Kd8 10.Bf4 d6 11.O-O-O Kxc7 12.Qc4+ Kb8 13.Qd4, even if the attack is insufficient.

MONSON:
As I mentioned to Craig privately, it would be a sad state of offairs if "Junior" were to be adorned with credit for this intriguing knight sacrifice variation, since I came up with this myself back in 1997.  I first played it in correspondence tournaments in 1998 and also wrote some articles on it that were published by Stefan Buecker's _Kaissiber magazine_ in 1998.  I also discovered the 12.Qc4+TN in 1998 but didn't get the chance to use it in practice until 1999, against a 2430 rated player:

Monson, B - Sakai (2430) [C47]
Belgrade Gambit Corr. Thematic, 1999

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.Nd5 Nb4 6.Nxd4 Nxe4 (note that 6...Nbxd5 7.exd5 Nxd5 8.Nf5 leads to a different sacrificial attack on the other wing after 8...Ne7 9.Bg5 f6 10.Bxf6 gxf6 11.Qh5+, etc.) 7.Nb5 Nxd5 8.Qxd5 Qe7 9.Nxc7+ Kd8 10.Bf4! d6 11.O-O-O Kxc7 12.Qc4+!N (other moves are possible, such as 12.Bc4, 12.f3 and even 12.Rd4).  12...Kb8 13.h4! (rather than Craig's--or "Junior's" suggestion of 13.Qd4) 13...Qe6 14.Qd4 f5 15.f3 Nf6 16.Bc4 (16.Bb5!?) 16...Qe7 (16...Qd7 17.Bb5!) 17.Rhe1 Qc7 18.Re3 Bd7 19.Rc3 Bc6 20.g4 fxg4 21.fxg4 h6 22.b4 a6 23.Re1 Qd8 24.Bf7! Kc7 25.a4 g5 26.hxg5 hxg5 27.Bxg5 Bg7 28.Re6 Rh1+ 29.Kb2 Rf1 30.Be8!! Rf3 31.Rxf3 Bxf3 32.Bxf6 Bxf6 33.Rxf6 Bxg4 (amazingly, material is equal, but black cannot save the position) 34.Bg6 Bc8 35.a5 1-0



There's also another option for white on the 7th move:

Prie - Psakhis Paris 1990
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. d4 ed4 5. Nd5 Nb4 6. Nd4 Ne4 7. Nf5 c6 8. Nb4 Qa5 9. Qf3 Bb4+ 10. Kd1 Qe5 11. Ng7+ Kd8 12. Nf5 d5 13. Nh6 Qd4+ 14. Bd3 Nf2+ 15. Ke2 Re8+ 16. Be3 Nd3 17. c3 Nf4+ 18. Kf2 Nd3+ 19. Ke2 Qc4 20. Nf7+ Kc7 21. Kd2 Bc5 22. Qg3+ Kb6 23. Nd6 Be3+ 24. Qe3 Re3 25. Nc4 dc4 26. Ke3 Bg4 27. b3 Kc5 0-1
  
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Re: The Belgrade Gambit
Reply #161 - 07/08/06 at 13:52:03
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Poorgrade_gambit wrote on 07/06/06 at 08:17:34:
Sorry, i thought it was, coz it was in my Schiller Book, "How To Play the Belgrade Gambit", taking a note of your reply i verified it and yes, it falls under the avoided lines in Chapter 12-15. The line Mamedyarov used is the Bogoljubow variation (4. ... Bb4) avoiding the Gambit, and Pentala continued with the Krause Variation by taking the pawn in e5.

Thank You


If you're interested in the Belgrade you should also check up Bruce Monson's book on it. - Btw, has he published a 2nd revision of it?
  
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Re: The Belgrade Gambit
Reply #160 - 07/06/06 at 15:14:02
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Poorgrade_gambit wrote on 07/06/06 at 08:17:34:
Sorry, i thought it was, coz it was in my Schiller Book, "How To Play the Belgrade Gambit"

Of course you mean the line, not the Harikrishna-Mamedyarov game.  Be kinda scary if Schiller could crank out chess books this quickly.  Shocked
  

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Re: The Belgrade Gambit
Reply #159 - 07/06/06 at 14:51:36
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Poorgrade_gambit wrote on 07/06/06 at 08:17:34:
Sorry, i thought it was, coz it was in my Schiller Book, "How To Play the Belgrade Gambit", taking a note of your reply i verified it and yes, it falls under the avoided lines in Chapter 12-15. The line Mamedyarov used is the Bogoljubow variation (4. ... Bb4) avoiding the Gambit, and Pentala continued with the Krause Variation by taking the pawn in e5.

Thank You


Well of course, if you're going to play the Belgrade Gambit, you have to know how to play against 4...Bb4.  But in itself it's not a Belgrade.  It may interest you to know that Olivier Renet's 1. e4 e5 section of Chesspub recently included extensive new analysis of 4...Bb4.
  

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Re: The Belgrade Gambit
Reply #158 - 07/06/06 at 08:17:34
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Sorry, i thought it was, coz it was in my Schiller Book, "How To Play the Belgrade Gambit", taking a note of your reply i verified it and yes, it falls under the avoided lines in Chapter 12-15. The line Mamedyarov used is the Bogoljubow variation (4. ... Bb4) avoiding the Gambit, and Pentala continued with the Krause Variation by taking the pawn in e5.

Thank You
  
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Re: The Belgrade Gambit
Reply #157 - 07/05/06 at 12:15:15
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Erm, I'm not commenting on the pros and cons of the Belgrade Gambit, but this is not a Belgrade Gambit, the introductory moves of which are 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.Nd5.

Say what you like about 4...Bb4, but it radically prevents 5.Nd5 ...

For all you know, Harikrishna was aiming for a Scotch Four Knights after 4...exd4 5.Nxd4.
  

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Re: The Belgrade Gambit
Reply #156 - 07/05/06 at 10:22:40
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