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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 2.f4 (Read 5568 times)
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Re: 2.f4
Reply #11 - 10/12/04 at 07:06:57
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Well, I don't see how white can achieve anything by avoiding e4-e5, in the few games I found e5 was played eventually in all.

It remind me of a variation against the french, which I think Bangiev recommends on some cd, anyway: 1.e4 e6 2.f4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 followed by d3, Na3, g3, Bg2, 0-0, Qe1 etc. But here white keeps Bf1 and Bc8 on, so both sides have a slight problem bishop.

But after exchanging bishops a la Larsen, white has a potentially bad bishop on c1. I'm not sure if black can exploit it, but playing for f7-f5 could be one way, or just g6, h5, Nh6 and Be7, keeping the king on e8 for a while and playing for a slow pawn advance on the queenside could be another. I'm analyzing w/o a board now so perhaps white has some concrete tactics somewhere.
Be that as it may, I still wouldn't want to command the white side.  Roll Eyes
  
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tracke
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Re: 2.f4
Reply #10 - 10/12/04 at 03:32:15
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Why is this an "essentially french" position, with pawns on c2-d3-e4-f4 v. c5-d5-e6-f7 ?
If Black refuses to take on e4 White is of course not forced to play e4-e5, c2-c3, d3-d4. There are many other plans ...
  
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Re: 2.f4
Reply #9 - 10/12/04 at 02:48:44
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Strange idea, even though Larsen whipped out a fine attack from nowhere in the game!

I wouldn't want to play it regularly with white since trading light squared bishops so soon in an essentially french structure just seems wrong. Black must be equal at least in my opinion.
  
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tracke
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Re: 2.f4
Reply #8 - 10/12/04 at 02:16:10
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Has anybody of you ever played 2.f4 d5 3.Bb5+  ??
There are some interesting games with BentLarsen2515 v. ZhuChen2490 , 1998, 1:0 (33) as highest rated encounter:
1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 3.Bb5+ Bd7 4.Bxd7+ Qxd7 5.d3 e6 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.0-0 += . Zhu Chen made some mistakes, but if she can lose it, why not your opponent?
Of course black can reach an endgame with 5...dxe4 6.dxe4 Qxd1+ 7.Kxd1, which looks very harmless but in fact is difficult to assess. It cannot be really bad for white as there are some higher rated players (not only Larsen) who have played this with white!

What do you think?
  
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Re: 2.f4
Reply #7 - 08/04/04 at 06:52:07
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I think this has been brought up before but let's not forget L.Day's suggestion of 1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 3.exd5 Nf6 4.b3!? with the idea of 4...Nxd5 5.Bb2 gambiting the f-pawn.  While I don't think that 4.b3 leads to any advantage you might succeed in getting someone out of their preparation.
« Last Edit: 10/12/04 at 18:07:22 by Glenn Snow »  
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MNb
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Re: 2.f4
Reply #6 - 08/03/04 at 05:33:49
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<There's also 1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 3.Nf3>
We have seen that one before. Alas it is a forced draw after 3...dxe4 and after 3...e6 I do not see anything better than 4.Nc3 with just a transposition.
Because of the three different move orders
A 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 e6 3.f4 d5 4.Nf3 dxe4 5.Nxe4
B 1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 e6 5.Nf3
C 1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 3.Nf3 e6 4.Nc3 dxe4 5.Nxe4
I think this solid defence is critical for the GPA.
For the gambit addicts the good news is, that White still can play f4-f5 in many resulting positions.
  
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Re: 2.f4
Reply #5 - 08/02/04 at 12:18:23
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There's also 1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 3.Nf3  Wink
  
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MNb
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Re: 2.f4
Reply #4 - 07/30/04 at 05:45:55
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After 1.e4 c5 2.f4 there are hardly lines, in which White can play c2-c3 to his advantage - unless he fianchettoes the King's Bishop, but then it is not a GP Attack anymore.
Of course White also has the option c2-c4, but that is only important after 1.e4 c5 2.f4 Nc6 3.Bb5.
The Tal Gambit 1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 3.exd5 Nf6 is in my opinion great for Black. Compared to the Icelandic Gambit the inclusion of the moves c5 and f4 benefits Black. With 2.f4 White shows aggressive intentions. In the Tal Gambit he has to conduct a difficult defence. This is not an attractive perspective. Black gets good compensation with very normal, easy to find moves. So it is not clear to me why Björn states, that 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 and 3.f4 is easier to play against than 2.f4.
1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 3.e5 is horrible indeed. Even with the bishop on f5 Black has a very nice version of the French Defence, Advance Variation.
  
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Björn
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Re: 2.f4
Reply #3 - 07/29/04 at 11:00:11
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Quote:
One of the reasons 1.e4 c5 2.f4 is worse than 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 is e6 3.f4 d5 4.Nc3 dxe4 and Black has already committed himself to e7-e6.


Well, it's not that simple, the advantage in playing 2.f4 as white is that the option c2-c3 is still available, it really is much simpler to play against 2.Nc3 as black.

As to 1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 3.e5, this line is just horrible for white. I entirely agree with alumbrado that white actually has to worry about maintaining equality, which seems just about possible by playing a setup involving f2-f4, c2-c3 and possibly d2-d4 (delaying Ng1-f3 at least until black has committed to Bf5, as Bg4 is really annoying).

However is 2...d5 3.exd5 Nf6 really such a problem for white? I don't have any recent source about it, but it seems to result in complicated tactical positions in which black has compensation for the pawn (that he will presumably sacrifice by e7-e6 sooner or later). I would have thought that if one has a good look at it one should be happy to play it as white?!
  
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MNb
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Re: 2.f4
Reply #2 - 07/29/04 at 07:29:13
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One of the reasons 1.e4 c5 2.f4 is worse than 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 is e6 3.f4 d5 4.Nc3 dxe4 and Black has already committed himself to e7-e6.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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alumbrado
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Re: 2.f4
Reply #1 - 07/29/04 at 05:22:51
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Well, I don't think much of 3.e5 - Black just has a very good French structure and can get his Bc8 out before playing ...e6.  I think White is struggling to maintain equality there.
3.Nc3 is a serious alternative, though Black is still fine.  I favour the option presented by Dorian Rogozenko in his Anti-Sicilians: A Guide for Black, namely 3...dxe4 4.Nxe4 Qc7!? which does not seem to be covered in the e-book here.
  
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DragonSnake
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2.f4
07/29/04 at 03:59:13
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I've been playing the GPA: 1.e4 c5 2.f4.

Now the critical line we all know is 2.d5 3.exd5 Nf6.
This line gives black a very nice position.
What about 3.Nc3 and 3.e5? or after 3.exd5 Nf6 4. Nf3 or any other move which does not try to hold on to the pawn!

3.e5 should give something similar to this line (which i often face as black) of the closed sicilian 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 e6 3.f4 d5 4.e5

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