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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Schlecter Slav (Read 22738 times)
kylemeister
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Re: Schlecter Slav
Reply #17 - 06/28/25 at 19:15:05
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Side note on the Exchange Slav ... it's advocated in a recent Modern Chess product. Upon 1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. cxd5 cxd5 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bf4 Bf5 7. e3 e6 it has 8. Bb5 as the main recommendation, plus "8. ♘e5!? Interesting fresh line that we are going to offer you as an alternative". 

I have to wonder what is fresh about it. I was reminded of Raymond Keene recommending it in a book from 1984. He cited Gaprindashvili-Mokry, Reggio Emilia 1982-3: 8...Nd7 9.Nxc6 bxc6 10.Be2 Be7 11.O-O O-O 12.Rc1 c5 13.Nb5 a6 14.Nd6 Bg6 15.dxc5 Nxc5 16.Rxc5 Bxd6 17.Bxd6 Qxd6 18.Qd4 Rfd8 19.Rd1 a5 20.Qc3 Rdb8 21.b3 Qb6 22.Bb5 f6 23.Rc1. "Black's moves have been exceedingly natural, but White still has a dominating position."

Later 8...Nxe5 9. Bxe5 Nd7 became a main line. I noticed that Ulf Andersson was on the white side five times between 1988 and 2004, resulting in five draws.
  
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FreeRepublic
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Re: Schlecter Slav
Reply #16 - 06/28/25 at 16:32:31
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Chessable has a course on the Schlechter variation of the Slav:
The Hybrid Grünfeld-Slav by FM Christoph von Puttkamer
https://www.chessable.com/the-hybrid-grunfeld-slav/course/119328/
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This can arise from a variety of mover orders. From the Slav move order:  1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 g6. The Gruenfeld move order: 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. Nf3 c6. Some lines are relevant to the King's Indian Defense:  1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. g3 c6 5. Bg2 d5

I looked at this a long time ago from the White perspective vs the Gruenfeld . I think some authors have been dismissive, considering it passive. Yet, it seemed solid enough. I have to admit that white scores well in games. That might be countered through preparation.

Puttkamer seems to offer a thorough treatment. Pretty much a repertoire against everything but 1.e4.

This seems to have fallen through the crack at ChessPublishing and maybe in chess theory generally. For me, the first question would be: what about the exchange slav? The author covers it. Since I haven't purchased the course, I have no opinion.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Schlecter Slav
Reply #15 - 04/01/14 at 01:03:27
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tony37 wrote on 03/31/14 at 19:24:36:
ErictheRed wrote on 03/31/14 at 16:40:31:

I think the usual counter-argument runs 4...g6 5.cxd5 cxd5 6.Bf4, which is played about 10 times as often as 6.Bg5, though it's not clear to me that it's a better move.  

a mini-repertoire might be: 5.cxd5 cxd5 6.Bf4 Nc6 7.h3 (7.e3 Nh5 8.Bg5 (8.Be5 f6 9.Bg3 Nxg3 10.hxg3 Be6) h6 9.Bh4 Bg7) Ne4 8.e3 Nxc3 9.bxc3 Bg7 10.Bd3 O-O 11.O-O Na5 (planning b6, Bb7)
my impression is that just following the main line leads to trouble for black


I honestly don't know what that "main line" is, but Black doesn't need to play ...Nf6-e4 and it's far from the most popular choice in this variation.

It's all more unclear (to me) than the books suggest.
  
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tony37
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Re: Schlecter Slav
Reply #14 - 03/31/14 at 19:24:36
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ErictheRed wrote on 03/31/14 at 16:40:31:

I think the usual counter-argument runs 4...g6 5.cxd5 cxd5 6.Bf4, which is played about 10 times as often as 6.Bg5, though it's not clear to me that it's a better move.  

a mini-repertoire might be: 5.cxd5 cxd5 6.Bf4 Nc6 7.h3 (7.e3 Nh5 8.Bg5 (8.Be5 f6 9.Bg3 Nxg3 10.hxg3 Be6) h6 9.Bh4 Bg7) Ne4 8.e3 Nxc3 9.bxc3 Bg7 10.Bd3 O-O 11.O-O Na5 (planning b6, Bb7)
my impression is that just following the main line leads to trouble for black
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Schlecter Slav
Reply #13 - 03/31/14 at 18:00:05
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kylemeister wrote on 03/31/14 at 17:50:06:
Well, 5. Bf4 Bg7 6. e3 0-0 transposes to an old book line of the Gruenfeld, though maybe considered suboptimal for Black these days.


True, but does White actually have anything better?  Maybe I'll take a closer look at 5.cxd5 cxd5 6.Bg5.  My general impression was that this is not nearly as bad for Black as some books would have you believe, though of course White is White.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Schlecter Slav
Reply #12 - 03/31/14 at 17:50:06
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Well, 5. Bf4 Bg7 6. e3 0-0 transposes to an old book line of the Gruenfeld, though maybe considered suboptimal for Black these days.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Schlecter Slav
Reply #11 - 03/31/14 at 16:40:31
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Quote:
The argument is that 4...g6 5.cxd5 cxd5 6.Bg5 is a good version of the exchange slav for White, but there was a thread on here with some discussion along the lines of it not being so clear. I go with it being a bit better for white.

Incidently 4.Qb3 g6 5.cxd5 cxd5 6.Nc3 Bg7 7.Bg5 is also thought to be good for white.  4.Qc2 g6 is viable though.


I think the usual counter-argument runs 4...g6 5.cxd5 cxd5 6.Bf4, which is played about 10 times as often as 6.Bg5, though it's not clear to me that it's a better move.  

When I looked at this position again recently from the White point of view, I didn't really understand why he should take on d5, and concluded that after 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 g6 I'd play the immediate 5.Bf4 Bg7 6.e3.   5...dxc4 doesn't seem to be a problem, so I don't see the reason for exchanging on d5, personally.  On the other hand, I'm not convinced that White has as large an advantage as the books would have you believe.  They mostly say "if Black wants to play this way he should just play the Grunfeld," or "in the Grunfeld, Black wants to play ...c5, so having played ...c7-c6 Black is passive," without much analysis.
  
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Re: Schlecter Slav
Reply #10 - 03/31/14 at 16:30:14
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GabrielGale wrote on 03/31/14 at 11:14:05:

When I did my google search, it turn up all these opening explorer websites but interestingly D15 Schlechter Slav has 1 d4 d5 2 c4 c6 3Nf3/Nc3 Nf6 4 Nc3/Nf3 g6. In one of the previous thread, Smyslov_Fan mentioned that Black only plays g6 when White has played e3 when the dark-sq bishop has not gotten out. Hence, I surmise Kamsky playing 4…a6 as waiting move? If 5 e3, then 5…g6. I suppose playing …g6 without an e3 is not good at all.
I am a sucker for fianchettoes and this will add another to my list.


Yep.  The argument is that 4...g6 5.cxd5 cxd5 6.Bg5 is a good version of the exchange slav for White, but there was a thread on here with some discussion along the lines of it not being so clear. I go with it being a bit better for white.

Incidently 4.Qb3 g6 5.cxd5 cxd5 6.Nc3 Bg7 7.Bg5 is also thought to be good for white.  4.Qc2 g6 is viable though.
  
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GabrielGale
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Re: Schlecter Slav
Reply #9 - 03/31/14 at 11:14:05
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@ Pantu, Thanks for the heads-up. exactly what I need. Much appreciated. Transpositions is one of my weakness. Hence did not think of Delchev's Reti book.
@Nestor, Thanks for the sources. I googled schlechter slav and Sakaev's Complete Slav turned up, But i don't have the book. Good to know but probably won't need it at my level at the moment.
Re Donaldson & Silman, thanks. I think I have a second hand copy somewhere. Did not even think of it. Will check. {No, I have the semi-slav book which I liked for its Noteboom-based repertoire.}

When I did my google search, it turn up all these opening explorer websites but interestingly D15 Schlechter Slav has 1 d4 d5 2 c4 c6 3Nf3/Nc3 Nf6 4 Nc3/Nf3 g6. In one of the previous thread, Smyslov_Fan mentioned that Black only plays g6 when White has played e3 when the dark-sq bishop has not gotten out. Hence, I surmise Kamsky playing 4…a6 as waiting move? If 5 e3, then 5…g6. I suppose playing …g6 without an e3 is not good at all.
I am a sucker for fianchettoes and this will add another to my list.
  

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A Year With Nessie ...... aka GM John Shaw's The King's Gambit (http://thekinggambit.blogspot.com.au/)
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Re: Schlecter Slav
Reply #8 - 03/31/14 at 09:30:28
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There are two further sources I can think of.

Sakaev's Complete Slav I (Chess Evolution, 2012) has 12 pages of quite dense coverage. The author has a classical Russian disdain for second-best lines; I sometimes think they must all be given T-shirts at the age of 11 saying WWBD in big letters (What Would Botvinnik Do?). However he concedes that White has only a small advantage with best play.

Silman and Donaldson's The Slav versus 1 d4 (Chess Enterprises, 1996) has 22 pages on the Schlechter. They cover all sorts of side lines, which Sakaev does not, and are generally quite optimistic about Black's chances. However this book pre-dates the use of this line by Kamsky and the Chinese guys.
  
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Re: Schlecter Slav
Reply #7 - 03/30/14 at 20:42:53
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I've played this a bit (Burmakin is another player to watch) as a general d5/c6/g6/Bg7 setup, with some excellent results.

Some notes:

- 4.Nc3 a6 5.c5 Nbd7 6.Bf4 g6 is quite similar
- 1.c4 c6 2.Nf3 d5 3.g3 Nf6 4.Bg2 g6 is also possible to make a complete repertoire with a Fianchetto Grunfeld.
- 4.Nc3 a6 5.e3 g6 gives white some extra options from the normal Schlecter move order.  6.Bd3 Bg7 7.0.0 0.0 8.Qc2 with 8...Bg4 9.Ne5 is suggested by Delchev in his Reti book.  With 4.e3 g6 5.Nc3 Bg7 6.Bd3 0-0 7.0-0 the main line is 7...Bg4 which Avrukh mentions in passing as equal (6.Be2 is met with 7...a6)
- 6.Bd3 seems most popular in the Schlecter move order Smiley
- after 4.Nc3 a6 5.a4 g6 setups are no good (5...e6 is my recommendation). 4.Qb3 also sidesteps ...g6 (4...dxc4!)

I think you will need to do some research with a database, at least that is what I did.  I also need to stress that you will be slightly worse out the opening no matter what, but the benefit is that you don't really need to think too deeply and white usually doesn't have an obvious plan.

Bologan's Chebanenko book will help a bit but otherwise it is only white repertoire books covering it (Delchev's 1.Nf3 book, Schandorff's 1.d4 repertoire, Avrukh).
  
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Re: Schlecter Slav
Reply #6 - 03/30/14 at 07:50:24
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Aziridine wrote on 03/30/14 at 06:37:15:
Several recent 1.d4 repertoire books feature the 4.e3 Slav and they might be your best bet for this Chebanenko/Schlechter hybrid, even if they show lines from White's point of view. Avrukh in GM Rep 1 takes this line quite seriously. Grunfeld books are more likely to recommend lines where Black plays ...c5 instead of ...c6, so you might not find much there.

Thanks and exactly. I checked Delchev's Grundfeld and that is basically what he said: c5 is better than c6 if Black can get it in and hence he has nothing on Grunfeld with a6, g6 and c6.

Thanks ErictheRed for the tip, will check out his games collection.
  

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Re: Schlecter Slav
Reply #5 - 03/30/14 at 06:37:15
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Several recent 1.d4 repertoire books feature the 4.e3 Slav and they might be your best bet for this Chebanenko/Schlechter hybrid, even if they show lines from White's point of view. Avrukh in GM Rep 1 takes this line quite seriously. Grunfeld books are more likely to recommend lines where Black plays ...c5 instead of ...c6, so you might not find much there.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Schlecter Slav
Reply #4 - 03/30/14 at 05:26:42
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Smyslov has played the Schlecter Slav a lot (he's probably the strongest player to have played it so frequently), and his collection of best games has some interesting material.  Not comprehensive, but some very good games and notes that can get you well on your way.
  
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Re: Schlecter Slav
Reply #3 - 03/30/14 at 05:16:16
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Dear All,

I have decided to resurrect this old thread instead of creating a new one. For some time, I have been intrigued by the Schlechter Slav especially the hybrid played by Gata Kamsky with an a6 and a g6. 


1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 a6 5.e3 g6 and here in Gelfand, Boris (2733) - Kamsky, Gata (2705) / Wch Candidates final (2.4), Elista 2007 (0.5-0.5), Gelfand went 6 Be2 while in Wang, Hao (2737) - Kamsky, Gata (2762) / SportAccord Blitz Men 2012 (11.5), Beijing CHN 2012 (1-0), Wang Hao went 6 Bd3.

Just wondering whether anyone knows of any resource/material on this? I have searched the Pub Forum and came across a few old threads (including this one) and the following:
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1205670954/0
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1220942371/0
Most recently this post from TN inspired my question:
TN wrote on 03/28/14 at 11:35:01:
I'd say the Grunfeld would be better for you (and arguably less work as you've already studied the positions a bit, while I assume you haven't closely examined the NID/764A47725047514756514D44101312122207 yet). But I'll mention as an aside that the Schlechter Slav (meeting e3 lines with ...g6) combined with whatever takes your fancy after 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 (I'd suggest the main line Slav as being consistent) and the Exchange (Vigus's 6...Nh5/5...Qb6 lines spice the game up a bit) could also be a decent repertoire choice, as there's less of a need for either side to find critical 'only moves' to generate play.


1) I know of Avrukh 1 d4 vol 1 Ch 14.
2) I guess Sadler's old Slav book has a bit on this from p 136ff: Quote:
What I like about the Schleeter Slav is its flexibility: on move 7, Black has a huge range of plans. [ie 7…b6, 7dxc4, 7…a6, 7Ne4!?...]
...and the list continues! There really is huge scope for personal ideas.

3) Glenn Flear's SO: Slav and Semi-Slav Ch 7 which also has a section on combining a6 with g6.
4) Had a look at Bologan's Chebanenko Slav and he does not analyse combining a6 and g6 (which may be saying something)
5) Graham Burgess's Slav does not mention a6 and g6 possibility.
6) Yuri Markov and Boris Schipkov's Winning With The Slav has a section p54ff.

So, any other resources/materials?

If looking at Grunfeld materials, what is the usual variation? 1d4 Nf6 2c4 g6 3Nc3 d5 4.e3 Bg7 5?

Thanks in advance.
  

http://www.toutautre.blogspot.com/
A Year With Nessie ...... aka GM John Shaw's The King's Gambit (http://thekinggambit.blogspot.com.au/)
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