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Normal Topic C11: Classical - Stenitz variation (Read 3591 times)
HgMan
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Re: Classical - Stenitz variation
Reply #7 - 12/07/04 at 21:59:59
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Of course, this isn't the only way to play.  In the third edition to Play the French, Watson recommends 7 ... cxd4 and 8 ... Bc5.  Going over a series of variations, it certainly seems sounder for Black, if maybe less immediately exciting.
« Last Edit: 12/09/04 at 22:02:48 by HgMan »  

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Re: Classical - Stenitz variation
Reply #6 - 12/05/04 at 12:14:20
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I can't give any particular variations, but I don't trust 10 ... Qc7.  It just seems to me that Black needs to strive for active counterplay on the queenside in order to divert attention from White's space advantage on the kingside.  After 10 ... Qc7, White seems to maintain a lasting and niggling advantage.  If Black wants to play 7 ... Qb6, then I'm inclined to think that the piece sacrifice is the principled way to play, and if that's the case, it works best after 9 ... c4.  I'm open to further discussion on this point!  (I suspect I may be in the minority here)   Cheesy

9 ... b6!? is a decent try.  I think I prefer the complexities after 9 ... c4 10 b4 Nxb4, though I suspect that has more to do with personal preference than the objective strengths of the possible moves in question.

I'd not seen 7 ... Rb8!? before, but it looks as though Black does rather well after this move.  Like 7 ... Qb6, it seems to offer Black lasting chances on the queenside and has the added benefit of not turning the queen into a target.
  

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Re: Classical - Stenitz variation
Reply #5 - 12/04/04 at 11:39:00
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I think the Sacrifice doesn't quite give Black enough also....however for those who'll take the plunge I'll offer another option.
1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 e5 Nfd7 5 f4 c5 6 Nf3 Nc6 7 Be3 Qb6 8 Na4 Qa5+ 9 c3 b6!?

10.Bd2 c4 11.b4 Nb4 12.cb Bb4

       A:  13.Qc2 Bd2 14.Nd2 b5 15.Nc3 b4 16Nd1 Qb6   
             17.Nf3 Nb8!? planning Nc6
     
       B:   13.Rc1 Bd2 14.Nd2 b5 15.Nc3 b4 16.Qa4

As I said I think White is better in both lines.

dom's suggested 10...Qc7 is a better option or might I suggest trying the less explored ...
     7...Rb8!?  with a possible line being 8.Qd2 Qa5 9.dc
      a6 or 8.Be2 a6 9.0-0 b5



  
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Re: Classical - Stenitz variation
Reply #4 - 12/02/04 at 07:53:35
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Hmmm.  In his book on the Nc3 French, Steffen Pedersen isn't crazy about this piece sacrifice, and gives the line above as much better for White.  Games seem to suggest it's probably not Black's best try.

Pedersen prefers 9 ... c4, after which the piece sacrifice seems a little more potent.  He notes that Black has two solid pawns for the piece and lasting pressure on the queenside

1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 e5 Nfd7 5 f4 c5 6 Nf3 Nc6 7 Be3 Qb6 8 Na4 Qa5+ 9 c3 c4 10 b4 Nxb4 11 cxb4 Bxb4+ 12 Kf2 b5. 

After 13 Nb2, he gives 13 ... Bc3 14 Qc2 b4 15 Be2 Nb6 with good compensation.

However, he suggests that 13 Nc5 is probably White's best, but gives no analysis.  Play might continue 13 ... Nxc5 14.dxc5 Bd7 15.Be2 Bc3 16.Bd2 Bxd2 17.Qxd2 Qxd2 18.Nxd2 Rc8 when Black likely has the better endgame chances because of those pawns.  Alternatively, Black might try 13 ... Bc3 14.Bd2 Bxd2 15.Qxd2 Qxd2+ 16.Nxd2 Nxc5
17.dxc5 Kd7, but practice suggests that White can simplify by giving back the piece for the passed pawns.

Finally, 13 ... Bxc5 14.dxc5 Qc7 15.Qd4 Bb7 16.Rb1 Bc6
17.Be2 a5 18.Ne1 b4 19.Nc2 Rb8 20.Rb2 Ba4 also looks playable, though maybe more complicated.

Far from the end of the line for this variation, though.  Any other suggestions for White or Black to improve?
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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Re: Classical - Stenitz variation
Reply #3 - 10/09/04 at 19:32:05
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Thank you very much for the replies.  Grin
Your advice prove very useful to me.
I will start playing the piece sac in my games.
  
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dom
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Re: Classical - Stenitz variation
Reply #2 - 10/03/04 at 09:08:43
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14.Rb1 on the linked web page is the reference game:
Bronstein-Portisch,Amsterdam 1964 (Suetin) and if 15.Bxa6 (instead of Qb3) references are given in Short's book: Malaniuk-Lputian,Lvov 1986 and Felsberger-Lalic,Oberwart 1986
  

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Re: Classical - Stenitz variation
Reply #1 - 10/03/04 at 05:13:57
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Hello and welcome on the French forum...

No, c4 (Portisch move) and cxd4 are only moves.

a) The line is not good, not because of a fearful attack on the kingside  (10...Qc7 11.g4 Kasparov-Dreiev,blitz tournament Munich1994) but because quiet play: 11.Be2 Be7 12. a3 Short-Psakhis,Moscou 1994 (McDonald) or 11.g3 Svidler-Bareev,Elista 1997

b) Try:
10..Qc7  Semyonov-Murey,URSS 1996 (Suetin)
or the sacrificial line with 10..Nxb4 and Psakhis/Tiemann has given up the line because 13... b6 14.Qb3! and 14.Bd3 but I don't believe it and I think 14.Qb3 a6 and 14.Bd3 Ba6 are playable

« Last Edit: 10/04/04 at 05:57:28 by dom »  

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C11: Classical - Stenitz variation
10/02/04 at 08:30:51
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I am new to French and I would like to know more about the classical - stenitz variation.

What should I do when White plays

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 Qb6 8. Na4 Qa5+ 9. c3


Should I ?

a) push my pawns 9... c4 10. b4  Qc7 and then push the b pawn forward to b5 and then a5. Black should end up with an open a-file.

The problems are that white has good counterplay in the k-side with the f4-f5 push and the bishops are all well positioned. Besides I do not know how to activate the white-squared bishop in this line.

b) Or should I play 9... cxd4 10. b4 What is the latest theory on this line ?

I know the line where black sac a piece for two pawns

9... cxd4 10. b4 Nxb4 11. cxb4 Bxb4+ 12. Bd2 Bxd2+ 13. Nxd2

And according to

http://www.exeter.ac.uk/~dregis/DR/Openings/french_d.html#RTFToC31

"Black probably doesn't have enough for the piece "



Or none of the above and play something else  ???
« Last Edit: 08/03/11 at 20:16:45 by dom »  
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