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Normal Topic Bust of Kramniks 13...Rg4 in the Sveshnikov? (Read 2931 times)
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Re: Bust of Kramniks 13...Rg4 in the Sveshnikov?
Reply #6 - 11/19/04 at 05:38:27
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1) Never trust books completely. I believe you can find alternative routes in almost every single line in every single opening. That's why "theory" always changes.

2) Never trust statistics completely. 6-0 looks bad but did black play the best moves? I believe not.

3) After a very brief analysis using Shredder 8 I would assess the position after 20.f6 as unclear (or equal or black has compensation).
  

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Re: Bust of Kramniks 13...Rg4 in the Sveshnikov?
Reply #5 - 11/11/04 at 10:45:25
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I used to dabble with the Sveshnikov before the theory exploded.  Here's a correspondence game that uses 13...Rg4 that might be of interest, though White goes wrong immediately by taking his knight off d5.  I played in this tournament and managed a draw with Black in a Panov-Botvinnik Caro against Roach, but completely lost my way against Fichaud on the White side of an Exchange Slav, before having to withdraw.  Excellent commentary for this game can be found at Ralph Marconi's correspondence chess site: http://www.correspondencechess.com/marconi/533.htm.


[Event "CAN-ch55 corr"]
[Site ""]
[Date "1999.??.??"]
[Round "0"]
[White "Roach,William"]
[Black "Fichaud,Alan"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "B33"]
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5 6.Ndb5 d6 7.Bg5 a6 8.Na3 b5
9.Bxf6 gxf6 10.Nd5 f5 11.Bd3 Be6 12.Qh5 Rg8 13.g3 Rg4 14.Ne3 fxe4 15.Bxb5 axb5 16.Nxg4 Rxa3
17.bxa3 Qa5+ 18.Kf1 Qc3 19.Nf6+ Ke7 20.Nxh7 Qxa1+ 21.Kg2 Qd4 22.Qg5+ Ke8 23.Qg8 e3 24.Qxf8+ Kd7
25.Nf6+ Kc7 26.Qh6 Bd5+ 27.Nxd5+ Qxd5+ 28.f3 Qd2+ 29.Kh3 Qf2 30.Qf6 e2 31.Qxf7+ Kb6 32.Qd5 Qf1+
33.Rxf1 exf1=Q+ 34.Kg4 Qc4+ 35.Qxc4 bxc4 36.h4 d5 37.h5 d4 38.h6 Nd8 39.f4 d3 40.cxd3 c3
41.h7 Nf7 42.Kf5 c2 43.Kg6 Nh8+ 44.Kg7 c1=Q 45.Kxh8 exf4 46.gxf4 Qxf4 47.Kg8 Qg5+ 48.Kf7 Qh6
49.Kg8 Qg6+ 0-1
  

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TalJechin
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Re: Bust of Kramniks 13...Rg4 in the Sveshnikov?
Reply #4 - 11/08/04 at 06:28:49
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I don't play the Sveshnikov from either side but since there's no interesting alternative discussions at the moment I took a look in the database and came up with the following:  Cheesy


1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5 6.Ndb5 d6 7.Bg5 a6 8.Na3 b5 9.Bxf6 gxf6 10.Nd5 f5 11.Bd3 Be6 12.Qh5 Rg8 13.g3 Rg4 14.f4 exf4 15.Nxf4 Rxf4 16.gxf4 Qa5+ 17.Kd1 and now: 17...fxe4 18.Bxe4 Qb6 looks like good compensation after an albeit very superficial investigaton. I suppose you've looked at this as well, so what's the problem here?

[ 18...d5 has also been tried, but Aagaard's treatment seemed convincing to me]

19.Bxc6+

[ 19.Nb1 0-0-0 20.Nd2 Bg7 21.c3 d5 22.Bf5 d4 23.Qxf7 dxc3 24.Bxe6+ Kb8 25.Bd7 cxb2 26.Qxg7 bxa1Q+ 27.Qxa1 Rxd7 28.Qc3 b4 29.Qb2 Qc5 30.Qc2 Qc3 31.Re1 Qa1+ 32.Qc1 Qxa2 33.Re3 Qd5 34.Ke1 Kb7 35.Kf2 Qxd2+ 0-1 Hristodorescu,D-Shumiakina,T/Bucharest 1993]

19...Qxc6 20.Re1 0-0-0 21.c3 Qg2! 22.Kc1 Qf2 23.Nc2 Bh6! 24.Qe2 Bxf4+ 25.Kb1 Qxh2 26.Qxh2 Bxh2 27.a4 Be5 28.axb5 axb5 29.Ra5 Bc4 30.Na3 Bd3+ 31.Kc1 Bf4+ 32.Kd1 Kb7 33.Nxb5 Kb6 34.Nd4 Kxa5 35.Nc6+ Ka4 36.Nxd8 Kb3 37.Re7 Kxb2 38.Rxf7 Bc2+ 39.Ke2 Be5 40.Nc6 Bxc3 41.Rd7 Be5 42.Nxe5 dxe5 43.Re7 e4 ˝-˝ Tremblay,L-Hildner,K/cr compuserve 1997.

  
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Lobachevsky
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Re: Bust of Kramniks 13...Rg4 in the Sveshnikov?
Reply #3 - 11/08/04 at 05:43:16
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I have both books and in general I find Yakovich's book better researched and more reliable. In this variation, however, I think he has made a mistake.

Against 13...Rg5 as recommended by Aagaard (and played quite recently by Leko, I think), Yakovich claims white gets an advantage, although I don't remember the exact line.

A third option is 13...Nd4 which looks best to me. Still, it would be nice to get 13...Rg4 to work as I find it so appealing Smiley.
  
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Re: Bust of Kramniks 13...Rg4 in the Sveshnikov?
Reply #2 - 11/05/04 at 13:06:32
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I don't play the Sveshnikov variation but the book "Easy Guide to the Sveshnikov Sicilian" by Aagaard gives (after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5 6.Ndb5 d6 7.Bg5 a6 8.Na3 b5 9.Bxf6 gxf6 10.Nd5 f5 11.Bd3 Be6 12.Qh5 Rg8 13.g3) 13...Rg5! as a more reliable move than 13...Rg4.  He says, "Time has given this the stamp of approval."  Has the status of 13...Rg5 changed since he wrote his book?
  
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Lobachevsky
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Re: Bust of Kramniks 13...Rg4 in the Sveshnikov?
Reply #1 - 11/04/04 at 10:05:51
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No one who wants to comment this? I thought it was a pretty interesting variation.  Wink

Do people not play the Sveshnikov or what do you do against 12.Qh5?
  
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Lobachevsky
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Bust of Kramniks 13...Rg4 in the Sveshnikov?
10/27/04 at 10:16:02
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In "The complete Sveshnikov Sicilian", Yuri Yakovich recommends 13...Rg4 in the following line:

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5 6.Ndb5 d6 7.Bg5 a6 8.Na3 b5 9.Bxf6 gxf6 10.Nd5 f5 11.Bd3 Be6 12.Qh5 Rg8 13.g3 Rg4

(An idea of Kramnik's from 1991 I think it says.)
According to the book white's only move is now 14.f4. Black's only way of playing to keep the initiative (exclamation marks are Yakovich's) is 14...exf4! 15.Nxf4 Rxf4! 16.gxf4 Qa5+!

Yakovich now mainly conciders 17.c3 and claims that 17.Kd1 Qb4 18.exf5 Bd5 19.Re1+ Kd7 is unclear. However black's score in this line is abyssmal (6-0 in Chessbase on-line). After 20.f6 white is completely winning. Black can improve on 17...Qb4 but still has a bad position.

Can anyone find a viable line for black to play after 13...Rg4 14.f4 or does black have to deviate earlier?
« Last Edit: 10/28/04 at 06:35:15 by Lobachevsky »  
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