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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Opinions wanted on the Classical Ruy (Read 14234 times)
MNb
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Re: Opinions wanted on the Classical Ruy
Reply #10 - 11/23/04 at 15:45:43
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So IMHO when deciding on move order, Black must choose between 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.d4!? (obviously avoids 4...Bc5) and 3.Bb5 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.e5 Ne4, when again I refer to some interesting corr games played by Beyen in the 70's.
  

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Re: Opinions wanted on the Classical Ruy
Reply #9 - 11/23/04 at 09:14:39
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So far I have not studied theory very deep as I play the Classical Defence only sometimes in blitz but I strongly prefer the 3...Bc5 move order!

After 3...Bc5 4.0-0 Black not only has 4...Nf6 with transposition or 4...Nd4 5.Nxd4 Bxd4 with a "dull endgame" (I like to defend this), but also 4...Nd4 5.Nxd4 exd4!? with a Bird.

Regarding 3...Bc5 4.c3 Black has even more possibilities which White must be prepared for:
- 4...Nf6 with transposition as mentioned
- 4...f5!? is very sharp, maybe += but for sure playable
- 4...Qf6!? is not easy to counter, should be += but still playable
- 4...d5?! (Konikowski) can´t be sound but also White can go wrong
- 4...Bb6?! 5.d4 exd4 6.cxd4 Nce7! was played in Sanakoev-Oim ,  14th CC World Championship final 1994 (and Black won to become champion!)

Unless White is prepared very well 3...Bc5 offers him much more chances to fail! Objectively 3...Bc5 and 3...Nf6 should transpose to the same main line.
  
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Markovich
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Re: Opinions wanted on the Classical Ruy
Reply #8 - 11/23/04 at 08:25:02
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I assume this means (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.bb5) 3...Bc5 4.c3 (and not 4.c4) Nf6 5.d4


Yeah, 4. c3, sorry.  No specific lines.

An additional argument is that after 3...Bc5  4. c3 Nf6, White can play 5. 0-0, transposing into the main line of the "Berlin Classical, 3...Nf6  4. 0-0 Bc5  5. c3.  So why give White the additional option of 5. d4, which appears to be a pretty strong move?
  

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alumbrado
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Re: Opinions wanted on the Classical Ruy
Reply #7 - 11/23/04 at 05:57:41
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I assume this means (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.bb5) 3...Bc5 4.c3 (and not 4.c4) Nf6 5.d4
  

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MNb
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Re: Opinions wanted on the Classical Ruy
Reply #6 - 11/23/04 at 05:01:50
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<I do not trust Black's side of 3...Bc5  4. c4 Nf6  5. d4. >
Any specific lines?

<it looks like I may have to start Hard Chess up again.>
Would be great.
  

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Munroe
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Re: Opinions wanted on the Classical Ruy
Reply #5 - 11/22/04 at 14:00:55
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Thanks for the feedback on the Classical Ruy (Great link to HardChess, BTW).

Good to see it's not forgotten. Keep up the good work!

Thanks Guys,

Munroe
  
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Markovich
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Re: Opinions wanted on the Classical Ruy
Reply #4 - 11/22/04 at 12:24:26
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What's the forums opinion on the state of the Classical Ruy?


I mostly teach elementary-age children (e.g. my students include the current 4th grade and 3rd grade champions of Ohio), but I do have one strong student who is 13 years old and rated about 1850.  I have her playing this defense, which I consider great for young and developing players.   She's had a great deal of success with it, too. 

The underlying ideas are quite simple, the positions are mostly open, and there is good scope for tactics.  There are several variations where White continues to enjoy his += birthright, but nothing too terrible.

There are some mistakes in the Hard Chess notes about this defense, which I will comment upon here when I get the chance.

I believe strongly, btw., that 3...Nf6, not 3...Bc5, is the right way to go.  I do not trust Black's side of 3...Bc5  4. c4 Nf6  5. d4. 
  

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Markovich
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Re: Opinions wanted on the Classical Ruy
Reply #3 - 11/22/04 at 12:15:32
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The articles and analysed games of Morss are great.


Dear me, it looks like I may have to start Hard Chess up again.  I have www.hardchess.com and my brother's services as webmaster, but I haven't done anything with it.  Yet.
  

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MNb
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Re: Opinions wanted on the Classical Ruy
Reply #2 - 11/20/04 at 20:52:46
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The articles and analysed games of Morss are great. It is not so clear, if 3...Nf6 4.o-o (4.d4!?) Bc5 is better than immediately 3...Bc5. Corr. player Beyen has won some remarkable games after 4.c3 o-o 5.d4 exd4 etc.
Moreover you might consider 3...a6 first.

Of course you will incorporate 4...Bc5 against the Spanish Four Knights Game too.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Opinions wanted on the Classical Ruy
Reply #1 - 11/20/04 at 17:52:07
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Greetings,

  My understanding is that you should delay ...Bc5 a move, and play 3...Nf6 4.0-0 Bc5 and play what some call the Classical Berlin.  It is covered in Flear's "Offbeat Spanish" and  NM Morss had some ariticles on it at http://correspondencechess.com/campbell/hard/h990517.htm.

Your Humble Servant,
Bilbo
A Texan stranded in New Jersey
  
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Opinions wanted on the Classical Ruy
11/20/04 at 05:59:59
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Having given the Pric my best shot for three years, I have finally come to the same conclusion as GM Davies and I'm slowly becoming convered to the 'classical' way of thinking.

With the help of a Eric Schiller book (I know, I know! Shocked) I'm looking at giving the Classical Ruy Lopez with 3...Bc5 a bash. I've gone for something non-theortical due to the vast ammount of knowledge required to convert from 1...d6 to 1...e5.

What's the forums opinion on the state of the Classical Ruy?

Cheers guys!

Munroe  Cheesy
  
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