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Normal Topic Transpositions to the Slav (Read 2850 times)
John Cox
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Re: Transpositions to the Slav
Reply #7 - 12/17/04 at 14:55:43
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I agree with John Simmons - 1 c4 c6 leaves White little choice other than 2 e4 if he wants to avoid a Slav (except for the Nf3/g3/b3 stuff or Nf3/e3, but you can't avoid those whatever move order you play). That's a variation of the Caro which won't suit every Slav player.

On the other hand starting with 1 c4 Nf6 means you won't have to play a Caro, but exposes you to 2 Nc3 c6 3 e4, which is quite an annoying sequence. It's a long time since I looked at it, but Watson's early 80's book made it look quite good for White, and I think Black generally shies away from it a bit. By comparison with the Flohr-Mikenas (1 c4 Nf6 2 Nc3 e6 3 e4) Black's not quite so well-placed to get at d4, since ...c5 loses a tempo and ....Nc6 isn't possible.

If you play the Caro it's a no-brainer: 1...c6. If you don't then you either have to learn this particular Caro line or risk the 3 e4 stuff - or of course find another defence altogether to 1 c4.
  
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Markovich
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Re: Transpositions to the Slav
Reply #6 - 12/16/04 at 21:27:34
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Quote:
After 1.c4 c6 white can tranpose to Panov var of CaroKann with 2.e4, this can later transpose to lines of nimzo-indian or even scandanvian in some lines.
   After 1c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 c6 3.e4 is maybe a problem because white can play e5 after d5. On other hand most club players who start English stay english, and since the Kosten book is so popular both moves likely to lead to same position. However, 1.c4 Nf6 2.g3 looks a bit wet, and line recommended by Kosten against KID a bit strange, so some players may be tempted by 2.Nc3 when 2...e5 could move order them. All this takes a lot of guess work, unless you know the opponent of course!

Bye John S


White has to be prepared to play against the Old Indian, it would seem.  E.g. 1. c4 c6  2. e4 e5  3. Nf3 d6 4. d4 Nbd7 or 2...Nf6 3. Nc3 c6  4. e4 e5  5. Nf3 d6  6. d4 Nbd7.  Nothing terrible, but some people like the e-pawn on e3 versus the Old Indian.
  

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John Simmons
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Re: Transpositions to the Slav
Reply #5 - 12/01/04 at 08:20:49
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Think best black can do is to play in slav style by developing white square bishop outside pawn chain, i.e
something like 1.nf3 d5 2b3 Bg4. As a rule of thumb not playing c6, until white plays c4. In some lines it is even useful for black not to play Nf6, and play Ne7 instead so that a quick f5 is possible. This occurs particularly after 1.Nf3 d5 2. g3 Bg4 3.Bg2 etc, when Keres and Shirov like(d) playing in this way. With these lines it is clear from a early stage not going to transpose to a theoretical slav. However, this looks like a perk for black who gets easy classical development and no problems.

Bye John S
  
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Re: Transpositions to the Slav
Reply #4 - 12/01/04 at 05:59:01
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I am interested in how Black might go about trying to get a Slav from a Nimzo-Larsen Attack move order i.e. 1.b3 or 1.Nf3 d5 2.b3
Obviously Black can do something else entirely (1.b3 e5!) but a lot of Black players at club level like to try and play one set-up (e.g. KID, Slav, QGD) against all non-1.e4 first moves and will try to angle for that rather than enter the 'main lines' (insofar as the NLA has main lines!) of an unfamiliar opening.
The worry here for Black is that after committing to an early ...c6, he might end up wanting to play c5 to challenge White's central dark square control.
  

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John Simmons
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Re: Transpositions to the Slav
Reply #3 - 12/01/04 at 05:42:18
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After 1.c4 c6 white can tranpose to Panov var of CaroKann with 2.e4, this can later transpose to lines of nimzo-indian or even scandanvian in some lines.
    After 1c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 c6 3.e4 is maybe a problem because white can play e5 after d5. On other hand most club players who start English stay english, and since the Kosten book is so popular both moves likely to lead to same position. However, 1.c4 Nf6 2.g3 looks a bit wet, and line recommended by Kosten against KID a bit strange, so some players may be tempted by 2.Nc3 when 2...e5 could move order them. All this takes a lot of guess work, unless you know the opponent of course!

Bye John S
  
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Re: Transpositions to the Slav
Reply #2 - 11/27/04 at 09:17:43
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I'm probably splitting hairs here--most roads lead to Rome--because I'm going to play c6, Nf6, and d5 in some order anyway regardless of what White plays.  Glenn Flear's book on the a6 Slav (Chebanenko) has a chapter to devoted to White not playing d4, and I think I'd likely follow that.

I used to play 1 c4 as a means of avoiding the Nimzo-Indian and 1 ... d5 (mainly out of laziness on my part), but I was happy to transpose to a KID (with 3 d4) if that's what Black wanted.  I don't think there's anything inherently unpleasant about Black's position if White refuses to push d4, but naturally I would prefer to use my Slav preparation...   Undecided
  

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Re: Transpositions to the Slav
Reply #1 - 11/27/04 at 01:29:27
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I'm not sure I've seen a continuation for White after 1.c4 c6 that I had much enthusiasm for that did not include d4.  I remember looking at these positions from the White side though, so if you're looking to cut back on work by avoiding learning defences to the various continuations for White, I can't help you.  On the other hand, if there's something in particular that you have found annoying to deal with as Black, I'd be quite interested to see.
  
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Transpositions to the Slav
11/26/04 at 14:47:12
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I'm a Slav player and have been struggling to find the best way to transpose to a Slav position after 1 c4.  Obviously, Black can play 1 ... c6, or 1 ... Nf6, and there are endless ways to reach a standard Slav position.  Now, I appreciate that White doesn't have to push d4 at all--and most players who open 1 c4 are inclined to avoid d4, but is there an approach that more successfully coerces or encourages White to cooperate?   Roll Eyes

How do most Slav players hope to get to their preferred lines?
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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