Latest Updates:
Normal Topic English Transpositions (Read 2565 times)
Alfred_G.
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 2
Location: Denver
Joined: 11/26/04
Re: English Transpositions
Reply #7 - 11/28/04 at 10:08:51
Post Tools
I don't often play 1.c4 anymore, but rather 1.Nf3 followed by 2.c4 vs. many replies. When I was younger I used to use 1.c4 almost exclusively. I switched becuase I grew tired of 1...e5/people mimicing my own defensive play vs. the English (I now play 1...e5 and if possible, 2.Nc3 Bb4).

At that time, as now, I would transpose to a Slav after 1...c6 playing either 1.c4 c6 2.d4 (intending 3.Nf3,4.Nc3 vs. either a Slav or Semi-Slav) or 1.Nf3 c6 2.d4 (intending 3.c4,4.Nc3 vs. either a Slav or Semi-Slav).

After 1...Nf6, I play 2.c4 now and wait for White's second move to decide whether or not to play ...d4. For instance, I would play these lines at present: 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 c6 3.d4 or 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 d5 3.d4.

So I suppose, I am no longer a true English player. I use the English both as a solid, winning try and as a means to avoid certain Indian defenses. I also don't like facing my own Black repertoire choices when I have the White pieces. As Black I play the French and an assortment of Indian/Benoni lines.

Alfred
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
HgMan
God Member
*****
Offline


Demand me nothing: What
you know, you know

Posts: 2323
Location: Up on Cripple Creek
Joined: 11/09/04
Gender: Male
Re: English Transpositions
Reply #6 - 11/27/04 at 09:27:46
Post Tools
Thanks Alumbrado.  I was really hoping to draw on forum members' experiences and I'm grateful for your sharing.

I used to play the CK against 1 e4, so that doesn't bother me too much--though I always found the Panov-Botvinnik among the more uninteresting paths...

I've been leaning toward Nf6, followed by c6 and d5 against most White response.  Against 2 g3, I guess I would likely fit in a 4 ... a6 as recommended by Flear in his book on the a6 Slav.

I used to be a devoted English player, and thrived on my queenside space advantage, so I'm looking for positions that stymie that as well. c6 and a6 leave some dark square holes on Black's queenside, but I don't think White can capitalize on them, especially when b5 is in the offing...

Thanks again!  Smiley
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
alumbrado
God Member
*****
Offline


Esse quam videri bonus
malebo

Posts: 1418
Location: London
Joined: 02/17/03
Gender: Male
Re: English Transpositions
Reply #5 - 11/27/04 at 04:56:04
Post Tools
Well, all I can do is tell you what I do with White.  Nobody has ever played (1.c4) 1...c6 against me, but I would certainly consider 2.e4 with a Caro-Kann.  Having said that, after 1...Nf6, I play 2.g3 to cut out ...b6 options, and if Black then plays 2...c6 I have to play a Reti anyway, so I might not bother to learn something different ...
  

If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
HgMan
God Member
*****
Offline


Demand me nothing: What
you know, you know

Posts: 2323
Location: Up on Cripple Creek
Joined: 11/09/04
Gender: Male
Re: English Transpositions
Reply #4 - 11/26/04 at 21:00:45
Post Tools
Right.  I've seen Flear's book, and it doesn't seem to matter whether Black responds to 1 c4 with c6 or Nf6, since he's going to play both anyway.  I know there's no way to force d4.  But is the quasi-English player (ie. the one who plays c4 in order to avoid some d4 openings he presumably doesn't like or isn't booked up on) one who wants to face d5 and not Indians, or vice versa?  Both, from experience on either side of the board, can anyone comment on which they're inclined to play?
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lnn2
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1503
Location: nc
Joined: 09/22/04
Re: English Transpositions
Reply #3 - 11/26/04 at 19:36:11
Post Tools
Glenn Flear's a6 slav book has a decent chapter on this.

There is no way to force White to play d4 probably also because Black is not treatening to play d4 himself, with a set-up like c6/d5/e6.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
HgMan
God Member
*****
Offline


Demand me nothing: What
you know, you know

Posts: 2323
Location: Up on Cripple Creek
Joined: 11/09/04
Gender: Male
Re: English Transpositions
Reply #2 - 11/26/04 at 16:13:49
Post Tools
Thanks, MNb, and I appreciate that there's no foolproof plan here for Black.  A true English player is not going to push d4 for love or money at such an early stage.

However, many people who open with 1 c4 aren't die hard English players, and I was more curious to learn whether players who opened 1 c4 with intentions of transposing were more afraid of Indian games or Black's d5.  (I know there's no obvious answer here and that it's a point of preference, but I wanted to gauge that preference by asking forum members for their opinions).  Lesser evils I can work with, but I'm interested in maximizing my chances of having my cake (and maybe even eating it, too!   Grin)
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10343
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: English Transpositions
Reply #1 - 11/26/04 at 15:46:23
Post Tools
If I were an English player (a short time I was) I would not play d2-d4 at all.
1.c4 c6 2.Nf3 (indeed, 2.e4) d5 3.b3 and 4.g3 leads to a variation of the Réti.
1.c4 Nf6 2.Nf3 (2.Nc3 c6 3.e4!?) c6 3.g3 d5 4.b3 is about the same.
If Black plays the Noteboom/Meran complex, he might consider 1.c4 e6 and 2...d5, only then 3...c6.
There is no way for Black to force White to d2-d4 and transpose to the Slav. So he has to choose the lesser evil.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
HgMan
God Member
*****
Offline


Demand me nothing: What
you know, you know

Posts: 2323
Location: Up on Cripple Creek
Joined: 11/09/04
Gender: Male
English Transpositions
11/26/04 at 14:53:59
Post Tools
I'm a Slav player (1 d4 d5 2 c4 c6, etc.--not ethnically), and was hoping I might ask c4-players how I might most easily coerce them into playing d4 so that I can transpose to the Slav.  I appreciate that English players don't need to play d4, but having dabbled with the English myself, I'm also aware that many players who open with c4 are trying to avoid certain QP responses from Black.  So the question: do I respond to 1 c4 with 1 ... c6 or 1 ... Nf6?  Which is more likely to provoke 2 d4 (or an eventual d4 after a knight move or two).  Obviously, White can dodge the Slav altogether, but I'm curious whether English players feel more inclined to challenge Indian positions (after 1 ... Nf6) with a QP thrust, or whether 2 d4 is really White's best after 1 ... c6.  (I'm aware of the possible Caro transpositions here after 2 e4).
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo