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Normal Topic Budapest with Bf4 and Nd2 (Read 2832 times)
Scholar
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Re: Budapest with Bf4 and Nd2
Reply #5 - 12/15/04 at 20:57:51
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OK, thanks for the info and your research-- I thought maybe there were more lines that you didn't want to enter in by hand, and didn't want to try and recreate Van der Tak's work.  Well, I'll keep looking at these lines, and we'll see if anything interesting turns up in any of my games.
  
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Re: Budapest with Bf4 and Nd2
Reply #4 - 12/15/04 at 19:19:43
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I have copied all the relevant lines given by Van der Tak and only omitted his explanatory comments. I doubt very much, if this article is available online. So I am afraid you have to find the answers to your questions yourself.
But you might try to contact the Dutch Corr. Chess Federation NBC:
t.de.ruiter@consunet.nl
Tom de Ruiter is chairman and responsible for public relations. If you mention the article in Schaakschakeringen no 309, sept 1995, page 134, who knows he might scan it for you?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Budapest with Bf4 and Nd2
Reply #3 - 12/15/04 at 11:25:55
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Thanks for the info -- is it too much to hope that there is a copy of this article on-line somewhere?

I'll have to look at the lines you suggested in more detail, but here are some initial thoughts.

First, the line: 12...Qg6 13.a3 Bc3 and now, what is the continuation for White here?  I have some vague doubts about Black's position after 12...Qg6, but nothing concrete...I'd be interested in seeing if Van der Tak has something here, before I attempt to duplicate his analysis or walk right into one of his lines.

11.e4 Bd7 12.Nb3 Qf6 13.a3 Bc3 14.Rb1 -- I think that += or even +/- is the correct assessment here -- White retains a nagging initiative, and I don't think that Black has a really good way to continue.  In particular, I don't have confidence in ...b6, and am not sure what other constructive moves Black has.  But maybe there's something in here for Black, and it probably merits a closer look.

However, I had considered 11...Be6 to be, on the surface, a better move -- does Van der Tak have anything prepared against this?
  
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Re: Budapest with Bf4 and Nd2
Reply #2 - 12/13/04 at 19:57:14
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I have found the article: Schaakschakeringen no 309, sept 1995, page 134. First Van der Tak investigates 5...d6 6.exd6 Qf6 when he thinks 7.Bg3 best. But the topic here is 5...Nc6 6.Nf3 f6!? 7.exf6
-7.a3 fxe5! Prieditis-Hermlin, Tallinn 1969.
-7.e6 dxe6 8.h3 e5! Ritzen-Grünfeld, corr 1918.

7...Qxf6 8.g3
-8.Bxc7 Qxb2 9.Bf4 Nd4!? Boas-Selman, corr 1930.
-8.e3 Qxb2 9.Rb1 Qxa2 10.Bd3 Winter-Goldstein, London 1972, d6 11.o-o unclear.

8...Qxb2 9.Bg2 d6 10.o-o Bf5!?
-Van der Tak already gives the improvement 12...Qg6 mentioned by Scholar; what about 12.a3!?

11.e4 Bd7 12.h3
-better 12.Nb3 Qf6 13.a3 Bc3 14.Rb1 +=(VdTak).

12...Nge5 13.Bxe5 dxe5 14.Nb3 o-o-o
Black had a good position, Weissgerber-Donegan, Bayern-ch, Bad Kissingen 1928, played the day after Rubinstein-Tartakower.
Van der Tak ends his article with the ominous question:
"Who dares to play the Budapest this way?"
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Budapest with Bf4 and Nd2
Reply #1 - 12/13/04 at 10:12:20
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Van der Tak has written some stuff on this subject in Schaakschakeringen, the Dutch corr. ch. magazine. I will look after it as soon I have time. But I remember he was not too positive.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Budapest with Bf4 and Nd2
12/01/04 at 01:32:23
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What do people think of:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e5 3. dxe5 Ng4 4. Bf4 Bb4+ 5. Nd2 Nc6 6. Ngf3 f6

Since Black seems to be having some difficulty drumming up sufficient counterplay in some of the main lines after 6...Qe7 (as evidenced by this month's update), I've recently been looking at 6....f6!? as a way of mixing things up, and am curious what others think of this line, which appears to be so rare as to not even be mentioned in the e-book.  I think the line has escaped scruntiny in part because of the game Rubinstein-Tartakower, 1928, where Black went down in flames, but there are plenty of improvements.

Here are some very brief notes on the game.

Rubinstein-Tartakower, 1928

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e5 3. dxe5 Ng4 4. Bf4 Bb4+ 5. Nd2 Nc6 6. Ngf3 f6 7. exf6 Qxf6 8. g3
(8. e3) (8. Bxc7)
These are the main alternatives; e3 may be a little better than g3; I think Bxc7 leads to complications favoring Black.

8... Qxb2 9. Bg2 d6 10. O-O O-O

(10... Bf5! 11. Nb3 Be4 12. Bh3 Nf6 13. Ng5 Bc2 14. Qc1 Qxc1 15. Raxc1 Bxb3 16. axb3 Nd4 17. Kg2 h6 {1/2-1/2 Sarfati,J-Dreyer,M/Wellington 1995})
(10... h6)

Both Bf5 and h6 were suggestions of Tartakower; each looks very playable, and Bf5 in particular seems solid.

11. Nb3 Qf6 12. Ng5 h6 (12... Qg6)

This is basically the last chance for Black to avert disaster (although deviating at move 10 is probably wiser).  I've not seen any commentary on 12th move alternatives, but after Qg6 it seems like Black should survive.

13. Ne4 Qf7 14. a3 Ba5 15. Nxa5 Nxa5 16. h3 Ne5 17. c5 g5 18. Bd2 d5 (18... Nb3 19. Bc3 Nxa1 20. cxd6) 19. Nxg5 hxg5 20. Bxa5 Be6 21. Bc3 Nc6 22. Qd2 Qf5 23. g4 Qf4 24. Bxd5 Bxd5 25. Qxd5+ Kh7 26. e3 Qf3 27. Qxg5 Qxh3 28. Qg7# 1-0
  
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