(UTC)
Latest Updates:
  ChessPub Forum › Chess Publishing Openings › French › C00-C19: about Watson's Play the French (3rd ed)
(Moderators: Smyslov_Fan, proustiskeen)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) C00-C19: about Watson's Play the French (3rd ed) (Read 5746 times)
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10756
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: about Watson's book Play the French (3rd ed)
Reply #12 - 02/21/05 at 19:59:11
Post Tools
"Maybe the lines with 6... a6?"
I like the idea of exchanging bishops of the black squares, putting a knight on c5 and starting a minority attack on the queen's wing for two reasons. One it solves the problem of the black bad bishop in the end. Two the same strategy is possible in the Classical Variation 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e5 Nfd7 6.Bxe7 Qxe7.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lnn2
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1504
Location: nc
Joined: 09/22/04
Re: about Watson's book Play the French (3rd ed)
Reply #11 - 02/20/05 at 22:42:22
Post Tools
Quote:
Going back over my notes in the 7 ... Qb6 line of the Steinitz, I realize that Psakhis is as light as Pedersen and much of my liking of this line comes from independent analysis...


Do share your corr game when you finish with it. Well my psakhis is on the way. Watson's 7...cxd4 line against the Steinitz doesn't appeal to me at the moment. So i'm looking for other solutions. Maybe the lines with 6... a6? Undecided

Another thing Watson is good for: he made me understand the French exchange variation!  Roll Eyes
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
HgMan
God Member
*****
Offline


Demand me nothing: What
you know, you know

Posts: 2330
Location: Up on Cripple Creek
Joined: 11/09/04
Gender: Male
Re: about Watson's book Play the French (3rd ed)
Reply #10 - 02/20/05 at 08:36:26
Post Tools
Quote:
Thanks for the advice! It looks like I will get the Psakhis  Classical volume after all.


Going back over my notes in the 7 ... Qb6 line of the Steinitz, I realize that Psakhis is as light as Pedersen and much of my liking of this line comes from independent analysis...
  
"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dom
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 908
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 01/11/03
Gender: Male
Re: about Watson's book Play the French (3rd ed)
Reply #9 - 02/20/05 at 04:26:48
Post Tools
Now, current page is P150...
Yes,as given above, best source for PGN games is www.chesslive.de (ChessBase site www.chessbase.com and then click online database)...but TWIC (TheWeekInChess) is another good database for raw (=not annotated) games.
I have not many comments on Chapter 6 and 7 because I am not (currently) interested with the variations.
My last comment is about P134 8.311)  :
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Bd2 dxe4 5.Qg4 Nf6 6.Qxg7 Rg8 7.Qh6 Qxd4 8.ooo Ng4!? ("obscure move" Watson) 9.Qh4 Nd7!? 10.Nh3 Qe5...and now
11.Bf4!? Dom (11.Kb1 Be7 12.Qxh7 Ndf6 13.Qh4 Nh5!) Qa5 12.Nb5 e5 13.Bg5 a6 (13...c6? 14.Qxg4 cxb5 15.Qxe4 and advantage for White) 14.Qxg4 axb5 15.Qxe4 f6 16.Be3 f5 17.Qxf5 Qxa2=
  
“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.”  - Groucho Marx
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lnn2
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1504
Location: nc
Joined: 09/22/04
Re: about Watson's book Play the French (3rd ed)
Reply #8 - 02/20/05 at 04:16:40
Post Tools
Thanks for the advice! It looks like I will get the Psakhis  Classical volume after all.

Back to the thread, I am curious what other authors, like Sam Collins, have to say to make a case for the White side of the Advance after Watson's many excellent recommendations. In particular the 5... Bd7 line with f6/Qc7/0-0-0 is easy- going for Black and not much to study.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
HgMan
God Member
*****
Offline


Demand me nothing: What
you know, you know

Posts: 2330
Location: Up on Cripple Creek
Joined: 11/09/04
Gender: Male
Re: about Watson's book Play the French (3rd ed)
Reply #7 - 02/19/05 at 22:50:41
Post Tools
Between Psakhis and Pedersen, you can cobble together a pretty good repertoire involving 7 ... Qb6.  I currently have a correspondence game that's headed into my "home cooking," so I'm reluctant to publish my analysis here.  Once the game is a little older, I'll revive an old Steinitz thread and share what I've found.  I do think, however, that there may be gold in those hills...   Cheesy
  
"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lnn2
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1504
Location: nc
Joined: 09/22/04
Re: about Watson's book Play the French (3rd ed)
Reply #6 - 02/19/05 at 20:13:13
Post Tools
Quote:
 As valuable a resource as Play the French is, I'm finding myself increasingly straying from his recommended repertoire.  I'm very pleased with his recommendations for the Advance and have started adopting 3 ... Be7 against the Tarrasch, but prefer the MacCutcheon and the Steinitz with 7 ... Qb6 to the Winawer and Watson's leanings in the Classical.  Not at all a reflection of the book, but rather my own temperament and preferences.


Hey my taste is identical to yours! except that I am currently interested in 3. Nd2 c5 4. exd5 exd5 (followed by an early ... c4). Watson for me is good for Advance and Exchange. Indeed my favourite part about his book is his chapter on the Advance, where he has so many rare good ideas.

Pedersen is rather sketchy on Stenitz 7... Qb6. Is Psakhis better here?
« Last Edit: 02/19/05 at 21:38:21 by lnn2 »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
HgMan
God Member
*****
Offline


Demand me nothing: What
you know, you know

Posts: 2330
Location: Up on Cripple Creek
Joined: 11/09/04
Gender: Male
Re: about Watson's book Play the French (3rd ed)
Reply #5 - 02/19/05 at 19:33:18
Post Tools
But I'm very glad to see this thread revived.  Dom: have you made it the rest of the way through Watson's book?  As valuable a resource as Play the French is, I'm finding myself increasingly straying from his recommended repertoire.  I'm very pleased with his recommendations for the Advance and have started adopting 3 ... Be7 against the Tarrasch, but prefer the MacCutcheon and the Steinitz with 7 ... Qb6 to the Winawer and Watson's leanings in the Classical.  Not at all a reflection of the book, but rather my own temperament and preferences.

Nevertheless, Dom's comments above are invaluable, and I'll try to post some of my impressions when I have an evening or two to myself...
  
"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
HgMan
God Member
*****
Offline


Demand me nothing: What
you know, you know

Posts: 2330
Location: Up on Cripple Creek
Joined: 11/09/04
Gender: Male
Re: about Watson's book Play the French (3rd ed)
Reply #4 - 02/19/05 at 19:28:42
Post Tools
The easiest place to find games online is at www.chesslive.de.  They have a very strong database.  It's free and an excellent resource.  Both games in question can be found there.

[Event "Graested"]
[Date "1990.02.??"]
[White "Vasiukov,Evgeni"]
[Black "Levitt,Jonathan"]
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Nc6 5.Nf3 Bd7 6.Be2 Nge7 7.0-0 Nf5 8.Bd3 Nh4 9.Nxh4 Qxh4 10.Be3 Qd8 11.Nd2 Qb6 12.Nf3 c4 13.Bc2 Qxb2 14.Qd2 Qb6 15.Ng5 h6 16.Nh3 0-0-0 17.Nf4 Be7 18.Nh5 Rdg8 19.Rfb1 Qd8 20.a4 Na5 21.Qd1 g6 22.Nf4 h5 23.Bc1 Kb8 24.Ba3 Bxa3 25.Rxa3 Qe7 26.Ra2 Rc8 27.Qf3 Rhd8 28.Rab2 Be8 29.g3 Rc6 30.h4 Ra6 31.Nh3 Rc8 32.Ng5 Rc7 33.Kh2 Nb3 34.Bxb3 cxb3 35.Rxb3 Rxa4 36.Qe2 Ra3 37.Qb2 Rxb3 38.Qxb3 Rc6 39.Re1 a5 40.Ra1 Ra6 41.Ra3 Bc6 42.f3 Kc7 43.Qa2 b6 44.Nh7 Bb5 45.Nf6 Bc4 46.Qa1 Kb7 47.g4 Ra8 48.Kg3 Rh8 49.Qb2 Ka6 50.Qc1 hxg4 51.fxg4 Qf8 52.Ra1 Qh6 53.Qxh6 Rxh6 54.h5 g5 55.Kf3 b5 56.Ke3 a4 57.Ne8 Ka5 58.Nd6 Rh7 59.Kd2 Kb6 60.Rh1 Kc6 61.h6 a3 62.Kc2 Kb6 63.Kb1 Kc7 64.Nxc4 bxc4 65.Ka2 f6 66.Kxa3 fxe5 67.dxe5 Kd7 68.Rh5 Kc6 69.Kb4  1/2

[Event "Badenweiler op"]
[Date "1990.10.??"]
[White "Kupreichik,Viktor D"]
[Black "Levitt,Jonathan"]
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Nc6 5.Nf3 Bd7 6.Be2 Nge7 7.0-0 Nf5 8.Bd3 Nh4 9.Ng5 cxd4 10.cxd4 Nxd4 11.Qh5 Ng6 12.Nc3 Nxe5 13.Nxe6 Nef3+ 14.gxf3 Bxe6 15.Kg2 Be7 16.Re1 Qd7  17.Bf4 h6 18.Nb5 Nxb5 19.Bxb5 Qxb5 20.Rxe6 Kf8 21.Qf5 Qd7 22.Rxh6 Qxf5 23.Rxh8+  1-0

List members might also be interested to learn that Kupreichik and Levitt had a "conversation" in this line two years earlier, though the result was the same:

[Event "Copenhagen op"]
[Date "1988.06.??"]
[White "Kupreichik,Viktor D"]
[Black "Levitt,Jonathan"]
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Nc6 5.Nf3 Bd7 6.Be2 Nge7 7.0-0 Nf5 8.Bd3 Nh4 9.Nxh4 Qxh4 10.Be3 cxd4 11.cxd4 Bb4 12.a3 Ba5 13.g3 Qe7 14.Nc3 f5 15.b4 Bb6 16.Bc2 0-0 17.Qd2 Be8 18.Ne2 Bh5 19.f3 Rac8 20.Rac1 Rc7 21.Kg2 Rfc8 22.Bb3 Bf7 23.h3 a5 24.b5 a4 25.bxc6 axb3 26.cxb7 Rb8 27.Rxc7 Bxc7 28.Qb2 Rxb7 29.Bd2 Qd7 30.Bb4 Qb5 31.Rc1 h6 32.Kf2 Be8 33.Qxb3 Qa6 34.Nf4 Bb5 35.h4 Bc4 36.Qe3 Kf7 37.g4 fxg4 38.fxg4 Bd8 39.Kg3 g5 40.Nh3 gxh4+ 41.Kh2 Kg7 42.Rg1 Bf1 43.g5 Qd3 44.gxh6+ Kh7 45.Qxd3+ Bxd3 46.Nf4 Bf5 47.Nh5 Kxh6 48.Nf6 Bxf6 49.exf6 Rc7 50.Bd6 Rc2+ 51.Rg2 Rxg2+ 52.Kxg2 e5 53.f7  1-0
  
"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Templare
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 23
Location: ReggioEmilia
Joined: 02/16/05
Re: about Watson's book Play the French (3rd ed)
Reply #3 - 02/19/05 at 16:56:42
Post Tools
Dom write:

P29: (b) 8.Bd3 Nh4 transpose to Vasiukov-Levitt,Graested 1990 ; Kupreichik-Levitt,Badenweiler 1990

Where I can find this two games? In PGN Games Archives i was not able to find them.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JEGutman
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


Psychological draw offers
are the key to success.

Posts: 41
Location: Pasadena
Joined: 12/09/04
Gender: Male
Re: about Watson's book Play the French (3rd ed)
Reply #2 - 12/25/04 at 01:27:05
Post Tools
As a note, to be fair to Watson, he does explain always why he picks certain variations over others (sometimes just because he covered them in a previous addition, other times because he was afraid of some developments or he felt there  was too much theory) .  He does however leave out on important move that makes me not want to play one of his recomended lines: e4 e6 d4 d5 nc3 bb4 e5 c5 a3 Bc3 bc ne7 qg4 0-0 bd3 f5 ef Rf6 Bg5 Rf7 Qh4 h6 nf3!? and since you can't take the bishop I'm not sure black has any winning chances in that line since you have to settle for the endgame which is better for white.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ILS
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 32
Location: Jakarta
Joined: 06/10/04
Gender: Male
Re: about Watson's book Play the French (3rd ed)
Reply #1 - 12/22/04 at 23:47:34
Post Tools
WOW...did you type all this down?  You must be very hardworking!

Anyway, what does all that mean? ...or did I miss smthg?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dom
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 908
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 01/11/03
Gender: Male
C00-C19: about Watson's Play the French (3rd ed)
12/22/04 at 06:49:42
Post Tools
Here are some of my own comments after reading half of Watson's book (You must own the book to understand them). "P" means "page" and last move on the line might be topic for analysis and deeper comments. I must say that Watson's work is excellent in Exchange,Advance and KIA's chapter (thanks for adding Qg4!? but I admit my favourite french MI doesn't approve whole system) just because of that move)  and now I know how to play versus the "dreadful" 2.Qe2. Tarrasch chapter doesn't cover the line I play (Nf6) and I not yet read Winawer,Classical,Odds and Ends chapters:
  • P9: (a) 6.a3 f6 7.b4 Bb6 8.Bb2 (8...fxe5 9.b5!?)
  • P9: 6...Nge7 7.oo Ng6 8.Re1 Bd7
  • P11: (b) 9...Qb6!? 10.oo (or 10.Nxc6 Qxb2 11.Qe5 Bxf2+) Nxd4
  • P15: 7.Bd3 dxc3 8.Nxc3 d4!? 9.Nxd4 Qxe5+
  • P22: 7.Bd3 f6 8.b4! fxe5!? or 8...Be7 9.b5 10.Nxe5 fxe5 11.Qh5+ Rf8 12.Qxe5 Bf6 (12...Qb8!?) 13.Qg3! Savon
  • P25: (a) 7.b4!? cxd4!? (and if 8.cxd4, then 8...Rc8 Minev ; 8...Qb6 Sveshnikov or ; 8...Qc7 Dom)
  • P27: 9.oo ooo 10.Re1 c4!? Alekseev-Ivanov,StPetersburg 1999 Inf 74
  • P29: (b) 8.Bd3 Nh4 transpose to Vasiukov-Levitt,Graested 1990 ; Kupreichik-Levitt,Badenweiler 1990
  • P32: (b) 9...Be7 10.oo g5 11.Ne3! (eg 11...h5 12.Nxf5 exf5 13.Ne1 h4=)
  • P40: 15.Bxg6!? hxg6 16.Qxg6+ Bg7 17.Ng5 Rf6 18.Qh7+ Kf8 19.Qh5 Nxd4! -+
  • P40: (b) 10..Nxe3 11.fxe3 Bd7 (instead of 11..f5 12.exf6 Bxf6 13.Nc3 oo 14.oo g6 15.Qe1!? ; 11..Bd7 12.oo Rc8 13.Nbd2 f5!
    or 13...Nb8!? Torre-Chernin,NewDehli 1991)
  • P40: (c) 12.Qd2 Morozevich-Milos,New Dehli 2000
  • P44: "10...Nfe7...or even 16...Qxd4" but 17.Nf3
  • P45: (d) 10.Be3 Qxb2 11.Nxd5 Qxe2+  Schurmans-Claesens,Belgium 1987 Jovicic
  • P45: (e) 9...Nb4 10.Bxh6! +=
  • P45: 7.b3 cxd4 8.cxd4 Bb4+ 9.Nbd2
  • P47: 10...Bd7 11.Nc2 f6!? Zlotnik
  • P49: (a3) 21...Rf6! 22.a5 Qd6 (22...Qd8!) 23.Ne3
  • P52: 10.Qe2 f6 "is my suggestion"..yes, true, but already given by Keres
  • P54: 14.a3 Ba7 15.Nd1 (15...Qc5 16.Be3!? Qe7 Qg4 unclear ; and if 15..oo 16.Be3!? Qa4 17.b4 +=/=)
  • P62: (b) 5.e5...9.c4!? [9..a5 with the idea 10.a4 h6 11.h4 Ba6 12.c4 dxc4 13.dxc4 Rc8)
  • P62 (b) 6.g3 Ba6!? 7.c4!? dxe4 (8.dxe4 Bb7 9.Qe2 Nc6 10.Bg2 Qc7 11.oo Bd6)
  • P62: 8.Bb5!? oo 9.oo Ba6 10.a4 cxd4 Adams-Bareev,Sarajevo 1999 (Watson gives Frankfurt 2000 ?)
  • P65: 9.a3 Bd7 10.Qe7 f6 11.c3 a5 12.a4 Be8!? transpose to Fischer-Canillo,New Jersey 1957 next page
  • P69: 2...c5 3.f4 Nc6 ... 8.g3 Nd4 Tolush-Golberg,Leningrad 1932 ECG
  • P76: 9...Nd7 10.Bg5 Nb6 11.Bb3 Rh8 12.Bxe7 Qxe7 13.Qd3
  • P77: 4.Bd3 c5 5.Nf3 c4!? (6.Be2 Bd6)
  • P78: 6.Ne2 Qh4+ 7.Ng3 Bg4 8.Nf5! Kilmenko-Nosenko,Simferopol 1991
  • P78: 6.Ne2 Qh4 7.g3 Qh5 8.Bf4 Qf3!?  (b.e. 9.Rg1 Nf6 10.Bxd6 Ng4 11.Rf1 Nxh2 12.Bxc7 Nxf1 13.Kxf1 Bg4)
  • P101: 4.g3 dxe4 5.Nxd4 Bd7!? Dom or transpose to Botvinnik's variation with 5..Nd7 (3..dxe4 4.Nxe4 Be7 5.g3)
  • P102: (b) 5.Ngf3 Nf6 6.Bd3 Todorovic-Antic,Yougoslavie 2001
  • P102: 6.Ngf3 Nc5 7.Nb3 Bb6 Bg5!?  (with the idea 8..Nge7 9.exd5 Qxd5 10.Qxd5 Nxd5 11.Rd1 and Bc4 to follow)
  • P103: (a) 4...Nh6!? 5.Bd3 B6 6.Ndf3 Nf5 7.Ne2 Ba6 8.c3 Bxd3 9.Qxd3 c5 10.Ng3 Nxg3 11.hxg3 Hebert-Numi,Canada 1974 Psakhis
  • P103: (a): Bd3 c5 6.c3 cxd4 7.cxd4 Nc6 8.Ndf3 f6!?
  • P104: (b) 5.Ngf3 oo!? 6.Bd3 f6 7.c3! (with the idea Qc2 and attack on h7 pawn)
  • P105: (a1) 8...Bb4+ 9.Kf1!? (9...Bd7 Matulovic-Despotovic,Smederovo 1981 Gufeld&Kalinichenko ; 9..Nh6 10.Bxh6!?)
             but 8...Bd7! 9.Ne2 Nb4 10.Bb1 Bb5
  • P105: (b) 10.Nxe5 Nf6 11.Bb5!?
  • P106: (b) 6.c3 Nc6 7.Ndf3 Desbones-Kappler, Accession French Championship 1991
  • P106: 6.dxc5 Qc7 Adams cf xzibit Chesspublishing forum
  • P106: 6...Nc6 7.Ngf3 h5! (8.Qf4 g5 9.Qe3 d4 10.Qe4 g4 11.Ng1 Qa5 12.h3 += Zagarovsky-Kellner,corr 1963)
         but 6...Qc7 7.Ngf3 Nd7 8.Qf4 (8.Bb5 Nevednichy-Picard,StAffrique 2004)
  • P110: (a2) 8.Nb3 Nbd7 9.Be3 Ne4 Labib-Minasian,Linares 2001 Psakhis
  • P110: (a3) 9.oo oo 10.Nc3 Plaskett-Short,2001
  • P111: 7.c3 Nc6 8.Qe2 Rogic-Levacic,Porec 1994 Psakhis
  • P112: (b51) 11.Bb5+ Bd7 12.Bd7 Bxd7+ Rublevsky-Morozevich,Togliatti 2003
  • P113: 9..a4!? 10.dxc5 Nxc5 11.Bc2 f6 12.exf6 Nxf6 13.Nf1 oo 14.Be3!?
  • P118: 8.oo oo 9.c3 Hansen-Lputian,Istanbul 2003
« Last Edit: 08/03/11 at 19:47:03 by dom »  
“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.”  - Groucho Marx
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Topic Tools
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2024. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge