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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Underrated Alekhine Lines for White (Read 5447 times)
arthur
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Re: Underrated Alekhine Lines for White
Reply #10 - 01/22/05 at 02:22:34
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What about 1.e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. Nc3 followed by either b or d recapturing the knight.
  
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guidedbyvoices
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Re: Underrated Alekhine Lines for White
Reply #9 - 01/21/05 at 21:40:46
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another underrated line is 1e4 Nf6 2e5 Nd5 3d4 d6 4Bc4!? as recommended by Soltis in a winning with e4 book some time ago, play might continue 4...Nb6 (e6 or c6 are also possible) 5Bb3 de (again black has alternatives 5...g6 or Nc6) 6Qf3 or Qh5 e6 7de with interesting play. probably not good enough for the highest levels but under 2300 its worth a shot
  
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Alfred G.
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Re: Underrated Alekhine Lines for White
Reply #8 - 01/20/05 at 18:17:37
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Misspoke above, said first two games... meant first game. I are smart.
  
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Alfred G.
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Re: Underrated Alekhine Lines for White
Reply #7 - 01/20/05 at 18:16:21
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Quote:
I agree that 4 Be2 is underrated and its continued unpopularity is very difficult to understand - although the idea of avoiding 8...Bxf3 is interesting: this has been thought forced by previous commentators (as far as I know - certainly Bagirov and Burgess). Can't White just claim to be better after 9 Bb5 Qd7 10 Bxc6, though? This looks a little prospectless for Black to me.


I agree that 8...Bxf3 is forced .... if the bishop is on g4. In the first two games I listed, Black avoids putting the bishop on g4 to begin with. I think there's certainly room for exploration of the lines in those games. Perhpas I should have suggested avoiding 8...Bxf3 by not playing Bg4 to begin with.
  
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MNb
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Re: Underrated Alekhine Lines for White
Reply #6 - 01/09/05 at 22:02:18
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It seems as if I have mixed up another transposition. 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.c4 Nb6 4.c5 Nd5 5.Bc4 e6 6.d4 d6 7.cxd6 cxd6 8.Nf3 Nc6 is the better move order.
Indeed Black has options with b6 and c6, but I assume that a White player taking up this idea will prepare these too.
Anyhow, in a few games I managed to transpose to the Alapin Sicilian indeed. After all Black's moves are very natural and books concentrate on 6.Nc3.
  

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John Cox
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Re: Underrated Alekhine Lines for White
Reply #5 - 01/09/05 at 16:17:23
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I agree that 4 Be2 is underrated and its continued unpopularity is very difficult to understand - although the idea of avoiding 8...Bxf3 is interesting: this has been thought forced by previous commentators (as far as I know - certainly Bagirov and Burgess). Can't White just claim to be better after 9 Bb5 Qd7 10 Bxc6, though? This looks a little prospectless for Black to me.

In reply to MNb, I don't think many ALekhine players will accept this transposition to the c3 Sicilian: quite apart from the ..c6 systems there is 6...b6, or 6...Nxc3 7 bxc3 b6, which I don't think is an actual transposition although it can be a bit similar.

In my opinion another underrated system is 3 d4 d6 4 f4 - Kupreichik had an enormous score with this and in fact it scores massively in the database generally after the usual 4...dxe5 5 fxe5 c5 6 Nf3.
  
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Alfred G.
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Re: Underrated Alekhine Lines for White
Reply #4 - 01/08/05 at 20:13:35
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I'm not terribly familiar with the Sicilian: Alapin, but Nc3 looks problematic in that position at first glance. I'll look closer after the NFL game is over, but it seems to me that from the Alekhine position after 9...Nxc3 10.bxc3 dxe5 11.dxe5 (11.0-0 and both 11...Bd6 or 11...exd4 look fine for Black) Qa5 12. 0-0 Nxe5 White is down a pawn with little compensation.

GTG, kickoff...
  
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MNb
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Re: Underrated Alekhine Lines for White
Reply #3 - 01/08/05 at 19:03:10
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If White does not mind to play a Vienna, then 2.Nc3 is not bad. My personal favourite though always has been 2.e5 Nd5 3.c4 Nb6 4.c5 Nd5 5.Nc3 e6 6.d4 d6 7.cxd6 cxd6 8.Nf3 Nc6 9.Bc4 transposing to a line of the Sicilian Lasker-Alapin. According to most books Black has more difficulties to equalize than it other lines after 1.e4 c5 2.c3; the transposition is Nf6 3.e5 Nd5 4.d4 cxd4 5.cxd4 d6 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Bc4 e6.
In general White has prospects of an attack against the enemy king, while Black hopes to simplify to a good endgame. In such cases I prefer White.
  

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Alfred G.
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Re: Underrated Alekhine Lines for White
Reply #2 - 01/08/05 at 17:20:40
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I'm sorry, I forgot to add that I'm not really excited about any of the rare sidelines (from a White perspective). I am, of course, curious what others have to say on the subject.

I think the Chase Variation and the certain Modern Variations offer the best chances. So, I guess I'd have to choose the Chase Variation as White so as to minimize the amount of book learnin' (if I played 1.e4). Not exactly unusual or unknown so I guess I'm not playing by the rules.

Alfred
  
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Alfred G.
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Re: Underrated Alekhine Lines for White
Reply #1 - 01/08/05 at 17:00:25
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In regards to the game played, I think Black can improve in this line by avoiding 8...Bxf3.
I disagree that White has a considerable edge after 4...g6 f4. Similarly I don't think that White has much better after 4...c6 other than to transpose into the Flohr Variation of the Modern with 5.Nf3.

Perhaps this could be named the Astengo Variation, since he (Corrado Astengo(2134) of Italy) appears to hold it in some regard. Some of my notes on the most recent games in this variation (I've checked and rechecked for typos as I wasn't able to cut & paste and keep my own formatting -- so hopefully there are no big errors)......
1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.d4 d6 4.Be2
 

    4           5           6           7           8           9           10

1   ...         dxe5        c3          Nf3         Qa4(a)      Bb5         Qf4
    dxe5        Bf5         Nc6         e6          Qd7         Nb6         a6          =, #1

2   ...         ...         Nf3         0-0         c3          Qa4         Bb5
    ...         Nc6         Bg4         e6          Be7         Bh5         0-0(b)      unclear, #2

3   ...         ...         ...         ...         Na3         c3          Rxd1
    ...         ...         ...         Ndb4        e6(c)       Qxd1        0-0         +/=, #3

4   ...         f4          Nf3         c4          h3          exd6        Nc3
    g6(d)       Bg7         0-0         Nb6         f6          exd6        Re8         =, #4

5   ...         c4          exd6        Nc3(e)      Be3(f)      Nf3         0-0
    ...         Nb6         cxd6        Bg7         0-0         Nc6         Bg4         =, #5

6   ...         Nf3(g)
    c6          Bg4(h)                                                                  unclear, #6


a
Black is also doing OK after 8.0-0 a6.
b
Unclear, although this game continued 11.Bxc6 Bxf3 12.gxf3 bxc6 13.Nd2 Qe8 14.c4 Nf4 15.Ne4 Ne2+ 16.Kh1 f5 17.Ng3, =.
c
The immediate exchange of Queens appears to offer more for Black, 8...Qxd1 9.Bxd1 (9.Rxd1 Nxe5 10.Nxe5 Bxe2 0-0-0 and White loses a pawn) 0-0-0 =/+.
d
Invites 7.Nf3 and transposition to the Alekhine: Modern, Alburt Variation. 5...f4 Bh6 may be interesting to consider.
e
7.Nf3 transposes to the Alekhine: Modern, Karpov Exchange.
f
8. Nf3 transposes to the Alekhine: Modern, Alburt Variation.
g
Possibly unsatisfied with the performance of 4.Be2 or prefering book lines vs. 4...c6, Astengo returns to the Alekhine, Modern.
h
Alekhine: Modern, Flohr Variation by transposition.

#1
Astengo(2191)-Horn(2272), Open, Geneva SUI, 1999.01.27, 1/2
#2
Briggs(2200)-Crouch(2407), Smith & Williamson ch-GBR, Scarborough ENG, 2001.08.02, 0-1
#3
Dogge-Goverde, HZ Open, Vlissingen NED, 2001.08.02, 1-0
#4
Astengo(2164)-Ermeni(2275), MTO, Biel SUI, 1999.07.23, 0-1
#5
Houska(2251)-Summerscale(2423), 86th ch-British, Scarborough ENG, 1999.08.12, 0-1
#6
Astengo(2106)-Zelcic(2500), 9th Aosta Valley, Saint Vincent ITA, 2001.02.03, 1/2

Nothing earth shaking there, but maybe it's useful.

Alfred
  
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lnn2
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Underrated Alekhine Lines for White
01/08/05 at 11:01:36
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What, in your opinion, are the most underrated or underestimated or even unknown lines that White can try against the Alekhine?

I offer one: 4. Be2. It's old and forgotten, and looks like a slow move. But it packs a big punch. If Black plays too routinely he can find that White's e5 pawn splits his army into two and paralyses his forces. 

Here is the game that started it all:

[Event "Kislovodsk tt"]
[Site "Kislovodsk"]
[Date "1982.??.??"]
[Round "0"]
[White "Kupreichik,Viktor D"]
[Black "Palatnik,Semon"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "B03"]
1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.d4 d6 4.Be2 dxe5 5.dxe5 Nc6 6.Nf3 Bg4 7.c3 e6 8.Qa4 Bxf3 
9.Bxf3 Qd7 10.Qe4 Nde7 11.Bf4 Ng6 12.Nd2 0-0-0 13.0-0-0 Qd3 14.Qa4 Qf5 15.Bxc6 Nxf4 16.Be4 Qxe5 
17.Nf3 Qf6 18.Rxd8+ Qxd8 19.Ne5 Bc5 20.Rd1 Nd5 21.Bxd5  1-0

Black played all the natural moves and lost quickly.

Even worse for Black is 4. Be2 g6?!. After 5. f4 I believe White has a considerable edge already. White can follow up with c4 and d5 soon, and form a big pawn phalanx.

Opinions please! (both on 4. Be2 and other White attempts)
  
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