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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Pirc 2.f4!? (Read 4885 times)
Glenn Snow
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Re: Pirc 2.f4!?
Reply #10 - 01/14/05 at 22:07:16
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"An Explosive Chess Opening Repertoire For Black" covers this under the move order 1.f4 d6 2.e4.  They recommend the responses 2...Nf6 and 2...d5!?

After 2...d5, they write, "Challenges White's center at once.  The loss of tempo means nothing, asthe premature f4 is a weakness in quite a number of theoretical positions.  White now has:".  They go on to analyze 3.exd5?!, 3.Nc3?!, and 3.e5 (the notation marks are those from the book) all favorable to Black.  I think White may be able get equality if he plays well though.
  
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bob000
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Re: Pirc 2.f4!?
Reply #9 - 01/14/05 at 21:54:56
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2....c6 looks too pasive to be a transposition into any line of the caro-kann. It also seems to be a bad move order for the Gorgonzal or whatever you call that opening. It is it own unique line and looks good enough to me.
Black doesn't seem to have any better than the inferior KG line after f5. Also, f5 looks too ugly to equalize Smiley
  
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Willempie
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Re: Pirc 2.f4!?
Reply #8 - 01/14/05 at 06:50:35
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I will remember this move, the variations look nice. I have two questions though:
-What about 2 ... c6? Doesnt this transpose to one of the weirder CK variations?
-What about 2 ... f5? Now 3 exf5 Bxf5 doesnt look like much to me for white, so maybe 3 Nc3 or 3 e5?
After 3 Nc3 black could try 3 ... dxe4 4 Nxe4 Nf6 when I dont find the position very worrying or maybe he can get away with 3 ... e5, which is probably a very old variation in the KGD and prolly not that good for black.
After 3 e5 I think black can just play 3 ... e6.
Have I overlooked anything major, which is always possible in my case Grin
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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bob000
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Re: Pirc 2.f4!?
Reply #7 - 01/14/05 at 02:47:07
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Looking at 2. ...g6. White seems to get a position with some initiative when black plays Nf6.
  
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bob000
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Re: Pirc 2.f4!?
Reply #6 - 01/14/05 at 02:34:57
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2.f4 looks like a pretty strong idea.
Since 2. ... d5 flat out wastes a move what's wrong with with just xd5. Looking at the position (For 30 seconds at 1:30 am) I don't see how black can force any scandinavian line where a free f4 move is a liability and it certainly seems like it can be used to undermine the typical c6 e6 structure.
In the KG transposition I believe 3.d3! transposes into a passsive declined line which is th. better for white.
The Grand Prix with d6 provides decent chances for white advantage.
Can you provide more info about the Kupreitchik Alekheine?
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Pirc 2.f4!?
Reply #5 - 01/11/05 at 19:54:31
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Certainly the second suggestion, after 1.e4 d6 2.f4 e5 3.Nc3 (3.d4!?) 3...exf4, of 4.Bc4 is safer than 4.d4, although isn't Black's main reply in the Steinitz ...d5? 

I'm not convinced that's White's extra move after 2...d5 really can be put to good use.  Any examples of how this might be so?
  
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photophore
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Re: Pirc 2.f4!?
Reply #4 - 01/11/05 at 18:16:47
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That's more than merely playable: quite equal
1 e4 d6 2 f4 e5 3 Nc3 exf4 4 d4 Qh4+5 Ke2 is a sort of Steinitz gambit , that should not be worse for Black
1 e4 d6 2f4 d5 does not suit me as thhe extra move of white can weigh very much!
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Pirc 2.f4!?
Reply #3 - 01/11/05 at 17:45:58
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After 1.e4 d6 2.f4, 2...g6 looks like a flexible move.

Instead 2...d5 3.e5 c5 (or maybe 3...h5!?,3...Bf5, or 3...Nh6) Black is probably fine here.  The extra tempo having been spent on f4 which seems to have as many drawback as advantages here.
  
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tracke
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Re: Pirc 2.f4!?
Reply #2 - 01/11/05 at 17:22:28
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I don´t want to go into an analysis of the King´s gambit. And I don´t know the details of the Fischer Defence as I prefer the Bishop´s Gambit (as Taljechin). That was the reason for 1.e4 d6 2.f4 e5 3.Nc3! and after 3...exf4 I would prefer 4.Bc4 or even 4.d4!?
I don´t believe that 1.e4 e5 2.f4 d6?! is really strong. But playable, maybe.

I think 1.e4 d6 2.f4 d5 or 2...Nf6 3.e5 Nd5 are more critical.
  
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photophore
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Re: Pirc 2.f4!?
Reply #1 - 01/11/05 at 14:36:13
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What do you think of 1 e4 d6 2 f4 e5 3 Nc3 exf4 (a sideline of Fischer Defence)? Roll Eyes Some players prefer the move order 1e4 e5 2 f4 d6 in the king's gambit , so it should not be bad
  
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tracke
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Pirc 2.f4!?
01/11/05 at 06:54:53
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Sometimes I use 1.e4 d6 2.f4!? as surprise weapon in blitz games with most often 2...Nf6 3.e5! dxe5 4.fxe5 to follow. Many opponents continue Pirc-like with 4...Ng4?! or 4...Nfd7?! what I would call already advantageous for White! Better is 4...Nd5 (or even 3...Nd5) when there´s the Alekhine Kupreitchik Attack after 5.d4 (or 4.d4). Not wellknown by Alekhine players and totally unknown by Pirc players! My score is really fantastic!!

2...c5 3.Sf3 (Grand-Prix-Attack without Nc3 and d7-d5!) and 2...e5 3.Sc3! (King´s Gambit) are for sure slighty better for White. And 2...g6 3.Sf3 (or 3.d4) looks good too. Maybe Black should play 2...d5 3.e5 ? This structure is generally not bad for Black but White has an extra move and can´t be worse.

What do black Pirc players think? Should Black go for 2...d5 or is it better to prepare for the Alekhine (1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.d4 d6 4.f4) ?
  
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