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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C30-C39 C33: The Fascinating King's Gambit (Read 252452 times)
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #136 - 05/25/05 at 16:51:40
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I own the book and have for several weeks. The content is good though I am a bit disapointed in the flimsiness of the front cover. I have an ongoing game with the Adelaide Var. e4 e5--f4 Nc6--Nf3 f5--ef e4--Ne5 Nf6--Nc3 Qe7--Ng4 Nh5--Bc4...? I am Black. And I have another ongoing game with the Present Main Line with the following moves page 39 a var, up to move 14 hg and his move.
  
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Paddy
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #135 - 05/25/05 at 07:18:46
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I've been toying with the idea of distilling the material into some kind of simpler and cheaper guidebook to the KG, or just 3.Bc4, to reach the masses Cheesy since so far I haven't noticed any big increase in the number of C33s in the weekly TWIC game download. But at the moment I doubt it would be economically viable...  Undecided


How about making it available as a PDF that could be sold on line e.g. using PayPal, like the theory "packs" in Spanish sold by Edami at

http://www.ajedrez21.com

Alternatively, once the paper sales have begun to decline significantly, you could market the original database (preferably updated) plus explanatory "texts" either through e.g. Chessbase or privately, like e.g.

http://www.schachmaterialien.de

Just ideas - probably you've considered these already.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #134 - 05/25/05 at 02:54:10
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When I played 2.Nf3 against Mark Hebden recently, he said, "Probably a wise decision - it took me 12 years to realise that 2.f4 was a mistake!". I guess Hebden stuck with 3.Nf3 though when he played the KG back in the 80s. Still, it was a great result for me to draw the game, so I'd better not play 2.Nf3 for too long or I won't want to come back!


Well, with 2.f4 you could've gone for the full point! Wink

Hebden is still on my favourite KG-players list (I think I've seen somewhere that it was he who taught Gallagher the KG, as a result of paying off a poker debt?! Anyway, he thought him well!)

Still, Hebden isn't immune to the KG magic, as Hillarp Persson beat him with the KG a few years ago when he had just started playing the Bishop's gambit. (Though sadly, THP seems to have gone back to the darkish side and his beloved 1.d4) Sad

Quote:
Haven't got round to learning enough of the 3.Bc4 stuff yet, so 2.f4 is still on a pit-stop at the moment!


Well, I know that a thick book like the FKG can be a bit discouraging. It's probably a good idea to go through it a little at a time instead of going for cover to cover in 2 weeks... Or why not try it out in blitz and check up what to do if something goes/feels wrong? In blitz you quickly get a picture of what you know and what to improve, and though a blitz loss may not sting as hard a real game loss, it can still be a good motivator! Cheesy

I've been toying with the idea of distilling the material into some kind of simpler and cheaper guidebook to the KG, or just 3.Bc4, to reach the masses Cheesy since so far I haven't noticed any big increase in the number of C33s in the weekly TWIC game download. But at the moment I doubt it would be economically viable...  Undecided
  
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TopNotch
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #133 - 05/24/05 at 20:12:01
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Against Hebden, was this a 4NCL, Simul or ICC game?

The reason why I ask is that I have noticed Hebden playing the Elephant quite a lot in blitz games on ICC recently and was curious as to whether one of these games was yours.

By the way, welcome back from the dark side of the force.

Top Grin
« Last Edit: 05/25/05 at 17:08:12 by TopNotch »  

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Paul Cumbers
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #132 - 05/24/05 at 18:21:48
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Whoops - I didn't realise that this was already a known idea! I haven't got your Creative Agressor book, but it sounds like someone I know would have done well to invest in a copy... Smiley

Haven't got round to learning enough of the 3.Bc4 stuff yet, so 2.f4 is still on a pit-stop at the moment! When I played 2.Nf3 against Mark Hebden recently, he said, "Probably a wise decision - it took me 12 years to realise that 2.f4 was a mistake!". I guess Hebden stuck with 3.Nf3 though when he played the KG back in the 80s. Still, it was a great result for me to draw the game, so I'd better not play 2.Nf3 for too long or I won't want to come back! Shocked
  
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TalJechin
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #131 - 05/23/05 at 18:09:30
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I think I mentioned that 13.Rh3! already in the Creative Aggressor,,, yes p 38! Cheesy If it's not in the FKG I guess I must've cut it during last summer's manuscript slaughter... Cry

Not sure what the lesson is though, 1) do your homework!-? or 2) look for beautiful tactics when you play sharp openings!-?

Maybe he'll change back once he loses horribly after 1.c4,?! Or when you start racking up pretty wins with the ol' KG! Cheesy
  
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Paul Cumbers
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #130 - 05/23/05 at 17:35:13
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Nimzowitsch Counter Gambit
In an attempt to get this thread back on track, here's one example of the surprises to be found lurking in the King's Gambit.
(Based on a game played by a team-mate of mine):

1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.exd5 c6 4.Nc3 exf4 5.Nf3 Bd6 6.d4 Ne7 7.Bc4 O-O 8.O-O Bg4 9.dxc6 Nbxc6 10.Ne4 Rc8. At this point, White knew that the right move was supposed to be 11.c3 (a view supported in The FKG), but became paranoid about tactical possibilities based on a discovered attack on the c4-bishop, e.g. 11.c3 Bxf3 12.Rxf3 (or 12.Qxf3 Nxd4 13.cxd4 Rxc4 =+) 12...Ne5 13.dxe5 Bc5+ (ouch!) 14.Be3 Bxe3+ 15.Rxe3 fxe3 =+. So some other 11th move was played, and White lost horribly.

The game was enough to turn my team-mate over to the dark side with 1.c4 Shocked, but he was stunned when I (or should I say Fritz) pointed out the following possibility:

11.c3 Bxf3 12.Rxf3 (actually 12.Qxf3 Nxd4 13.Qd3! is OK) 12...Ne5 13.Rh3! (what is White up to?) 13...Nxc4 (13...Rxc4 meets a similar fate) 14.Nf6+!! gxf6 (forced) 15.Qh5! and Black cannot prevent mate despite being two pieces up!, i.e. 15...Re8 16.Qxh7+ Kf8 17.Qh6+ Kg8 18.Qh8# 1-0. This combination shows Black's 11th and 12th moves to be flawed (11...Bb8 is better as given in The FKG, although White should be able to achieve a slight edge).

Unfortunately it wasn't enough to change his mind about playing the KG. Cry
  
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Paul Cumbers
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #129 - 05/16/05 at 17:40:04
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Sorry Paul! Of course the credit goes to you!

No worries! Grin

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About 5...d6 I will reveal as much:

If playing a stronger opponent, he will have to choose whether to allow me a draw (5...d6) or play for a win (5...Nf6)
Playing a weaker opponent who goes for the draw with 5...d6, I will choose between giving him the draw or playing for a risky win (9.Bb5+) or a safe alternative (d3 lines). Alternatively White can avoid the issue and play 3.Bc4! But this is WHITE's choice.

An intriguing post this one, leaving us rummaging around for a variation where 9.Bb5+ is possible! ??? Actually I appreciate that Michael doesn't want to reveal too much here. Although I personally have lost faith in White's position after 5...d6, I appreciate that the line could work at the right occasion against the right opponent. Nevertheless, I prefer to stick to openings I feel comfortable with regardless of the circumstances.
  
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #128 - 05/12/05 at 09:01:06
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Sorry Paul! Of course the credit goes to you!

About 5...d6 I will reveal as much:

If playing a stronger opponent, he will have to choose whether to allow me a draw (5...d6) or play for a win (5...Nf6)
Playing a weaker opponent who goes for the draw with 5...d6, I will choose between giving him the draw or playing for a risky win (9.Bb5+) or a safe alternative (d3 lines). Alternatively White can avoid the issue and play 3.Bc4! But this is WHITE's choice.
  
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #127 - 05/07/05 at 12:18:54
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Concerning 10...Kf8 I think Craig Evans presented some very nice analysis from White's perspective in a previous thread.

Or was it me? Grin After 10...Kf8 11.Re1 Qxh4, I recommended 12.Ne4!. In fact, the whole Kieseritzky Gambit thread is worth looking at again if you're interested in these lines:

http://altmax.com/cgi-local/cpf/YaBB.cgi?board=1-1e4e5;action=display;num=108746...

(Dare I mention the Death of King's Gambit thread? What a marathon!)
http://altmax.com/cgi-local/cpf/YaBB.cgi?board=1-1e4e5;action=display;num=105165...

So 10.Kd2 still looks promising, whereas both FightingDragon and I have our doubts about 10.Bb5+. However, this is all just a walk in the park compared to the troubles White faces after 5...d6:

Quote:
As for 5...d6 I prefer to be silent, but I can assure you that I am not discouraged by the Fedorov-Carlsen game, even though I was the one who published that exact line for Black.

I can't help thinking that no news is bad news! It's difficult to see how White might improve here (and boy we've tried!). In order to avoid undesirable positions, the draw by repetition seems to be the only way out, e.g. 5...d6 6.Nxg4 Nf6 7.Nxf6+ Qxf6 8.Nc3 Nc6 9.Nd5 Qg6 10.d3 (or 10.Qf3 Nd4 11.Qd3 Ne6 12.Qf3 Nd4 ½-½) 10...Qg3+ 11.Kd2 Nb4 12.Nxc7+ Kd8 13.Nxa8 Qe3+ 14.Kc3 Qc5+ 15.Kd2 Qe3+ ½-½ [see CCN 45]

Quote:
10.Qd3 of Borge-Olsen should be met by 10...Rg3 11.Qc4 Bd7 when I think the chances are even. If I remember correctly this was also covered in a previous thread.

I'm not convinced about White's prospects here - after 11...Bd7 it's hard to see a good move for White, and Black may be "threatening" a repetition with 12...Na5 13.Qb4/Qe2 Nc6 14.Qc4, etc.

Personally, I feel very uneasy about playing lines that give the opponent the opportunity to take a draw. Admittedly, if you're the weaker player this might not matter, but it's not good preparation for those occasions when, unlike your opponent, you want to play for a win. Isn't one of the main points of 2.f4 to avoid those boring draws that might arise from, say, the Petroff? Hence 2...exf4 3.Bc4! is something of a lifeline for people like me who used to enjoy playing 3.Nf3 until 5...d6 spoilt the fun.
  
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #126 - 05/04/05 at 09:00:39
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Btw I have done a review of the book in a small local magazine, will mail it to you once it is published.


Thanks, looking forward to seeing it! Cheesy

Anyway, it's nice that there seems to be some life left in the Kieseritzky, but personally I think white has more to choose from after 3.Bc4 while black is the one with more choices after 5.Ne5.

If I needed a 2nd string vs 1...e5 I might consider it if it wasn't so that nowadays I usually face 1...e6 or 1...c5 about 80-90% of the time, so why bother!?!  Undecided

Many players have lots of opinions about the ol' KG but when push comes to shove their defence turns out to be similar to the best defence against the atom bomb, i.e.

'not being there when it goes off!' Cheesy Grin
  
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #125 - 05/04/05 at 06:56:50
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TopNotch, I think we have covered this ground, can we agree to disagree?
What I do for changing up the game is switch between the King's Knight gambit and the Bishop's gambit, now that I have Thomas' excellent work.
Btw I have done a review of the book in a small local magazine, will mail it to you once it is published.
As for the predecessor game with 10.Kd2 I was well aware of it, it is covered briefly in one of my CCN articles.
Concerning 10...Kf8 I think Craig Evans presented some very nice analysis from White's perspective in a previous thread.
As for 5...d6 I prefer to be silent, but I can assure you that I am not discouraged by the Fedorov-Carlsen game, even though I was the one who published that exact line for Black. Anyway, there are lots of openings where both sides have the chance for a draw but prefer not to take it (stuff like Qa5, Bd2, Qd8, Bg5) in favour of playing a real game. So if some IM or GM wants a draw with Black against me, they can have it  Wink
10.Qd3 of Borge-Olsen should be met by 10...Rg3 11.Qc4 Bd7 when I think the chances are even. If I remember correctly this was also covered in a previous thread.
  
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #124 - 05/03/05 at 21:58:00
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TopNotch is repeating himself. Moreover it seems as if he assumes, that KGeers only play all kind of gambits, which is not true of course.
His first sentence contains a contradictio in terminis. The statement, that gambit play is addictive I do not understand. I would say, that a few losses is enough to be cured. I only needed two, to abandon the Albin's.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #123 - 05/03/05 at 18:13:06
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If u r going to play the Kings Gambit exclusively u better have a back up handy, or u will be dissapointed.  Grin

I see Fernando is now working on Kinderman's Exchange Ruy an excellent choice and an excellent book. Still as Khaliman said in the preface to his vol 1 Anand series, anyone who uses only the Exchange Ruy will only be half educated in chess Wink.

This thread has taken on a life of its own and from perusing it TalJechin has produced an important addition to the theoretical works, I applaud you. From the postings your passion for the gambit shines through. But I don't know why I always feel compelled, to respond when ever someone tries to extoll the virtues of Gambits, kings Gambit or Gambit play in general.

I fully understand that this is a pro Kings Gambit thread, so I will make my comments brief. If u must play gambits please do not do at the expense of all else, your chess understanding and results will eventually suffer as a result. I too like Kramnik never understood the Kings Gambit, yes White may get two pawns in the centre, but at what price! His Kings position is weakened and he he is a pawn down to boot.

Gambit play is highly addictive, but in the cold light of day the Burden of proof is always heavily on the Gambiteer.

Regards

Top  Grin   

  

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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #122 - 05/03/05 at 08:15:30
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Oops, I forgot 5. ... d6!? (I think you were talking about this, Fernando?!)
So what's wrong with 6.Ng4: Nf6 7.Nf2!? Rg8 8.Nc3 Nc6 9.d4 Bh6 10.Qd3!? as in Borge-Olsen, 1999 ?
In the game black quickly got a worse position after 10. ... Bd7 (perhaps too peaceful) 11.Ne2 Qe7 12.Bf4: Bf4: 13.Nf4: Bf5 14.0-0-0 Be4: 15.Qh3 d5 16.Re1 with a white initiative which lead to a endgame where he was a pawn up.
Jensen also gives the plausible 10. ... Rg3 11.Qc4 Qe7 12.Bd2
+= , I agree with that assesment.
So did I overlook something, is there an improvement for black?
  
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