Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Saragossa (Read 7852 times)
alumbrado
God Member
*****
Offline


Esse quam videri bonus
malebo

Posts: 1418
Location: London
Joined: 02/17/03
Gender: Male
Re: Saragossa
Reply #8 - 01/21/05 at 03:30:04
Post Tools
Well, we won't cast you out from Olympus just yet ... but I have been trying to tell you for months that no good can come of these early thrusts with the f-pawn  Tongue
(This from someone who is seriously considering taking up the King's Gambit Shocked )
  

If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10384
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Saragossa
Reply #7 - 01/20/05 at 21:39:07
Post Tools
"a total blunder"
Even gods are fallible. What is worse, I simply believed you without checking.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1675
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Re: Saragossa
Reply #6 - 01/20/05 at 17:56:14
Post Tools
I've located the articles in "The Myers Openings Bulletin" and will start searching for relevant material. (Incidentally, while researching 1.c3, I noticed an article by L.Day on 1.e4 c5 2.a3 from 1993.   This variation is being discussed in the "Anti-Sicilians" section right now.  Never get rid of your old material!)

One quick note now is that my (after 1.c3 f5 2.e4 fxe4 3.d3) 3...e5 is a total blunder because of the obvious 4.Qh5+.  The correct move order is 3...Nf6 4.dxe4 e5!.

I'll check to see if anything was recommended after 1.c3 e6.  I don't think anyone ever really thought White could fight for an egde with 1.c3, but it can lead to interesting dynamic (and at least equal) play if one is creative enough.  What does White play after 1.c3 c6?  Grin
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10384
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Saragossa
Reply #5 - 01/20/05 at 15:47:17
Post Tools
Haven't thought of this. One should probably compare 1.c3 f5 2.e4 fxe4 3.d3 e5 4.dxe4 Nf6 (or Nf6 4.dxe4 e5) with the KGD. At one hand the early exchange fxe4 rules out some options, at the other hand the pawn on c3 is not very useful.
What about 1.c3 e6 intending 2...f5 ?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1675
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Re: Saragossa
Reply #4 - 01/20/05 at 06:46:32
Post Tools
I would think of it more as a From's gamibt with the extra move ...c6 opening up another diagonal for the queen (1.f4 e5 with Black already having played ...c6).  I don't think, however, that we really proved an advantage for White after 1.c3 f5 2.e4 fxe4 3.d3 e5! although play was interesting.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10384
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Saragossa
Reply #3 - 01/20/05 at 05:35:52
Post Tools
I am curious to that analysis, but my first impression is that White is playing a bad version of the Staunton Gambit. I mean, whoever thinks 1.d4 e6 2.c3 f5 3.e4 dangerous for Black?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1675
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Re: Saragossa
Reply #2 - 01/19/05 at 21:26:57
Post Tools
I remember a long time ago in the "Myer's Openings Bulletin" it was suggested that after 1.c3 f5, White might do well with 2.e4!?.  I remember I contributed to this analysis but if you can get a hold of it you might want to look at it anyway.  I recall GM Rogers had tried 1.c3 and 2.e4 but preferred another method against 1...f5.  I'll try and look this up.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10384
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Saragossa
Reply #1 - 01/19/05 at 20:58:28
Post Tools
1.c3 is a superfluous move after f5! followed by the Iljin-Zjenevsky setup, which in this case is stronger than the Leningrad.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
HgMan
God Member
*****
Offline


Demand me nothing: What
you know, you know

Posts: 2323
Location: Up on Cripple Creek
Joined: 11/09/04
Gender: Male
Saragossa
01/19/05 at 15:27:29
Post Tools
For much too long, I had a deep infatuation with 1 c3 (I finally managed to kick the habit about ten or twelve years ago).  I have very few of my games recorded from that period, but I recall that I deliberately avoided transposing into the Colle, often finding myself in problematic reversed Old Indians and Pircs.  Does 1 c3 have any virtues outside of being a (rather useless) transpositional tool?  Does anyone play it?
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo