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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) HOBBS - ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT (Read 10907 times)
Lev D. Zilbermints
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Re: HOBBS - ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT
Reply #15 - 02/18/05 at 09:01:17
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I suppose, that Yaltmax is unfindable yet. Or is there anybody else who can move this tread?


I started a new Hobbs-Zilbermints Gambit discussion under Flank Openings. Check it out there. As for moving this thread, will copy, cut and paste work?
  
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MNb
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Re: HOBBS - ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT
Reply #14 - 02/17/05 at 21:19:15
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I suppose, that Yaltmax is unfindable yet. Or is there anybody else who can move this tread?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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HgMan
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Re: HOBBS - ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT
Reply #13 - 02/17/05 at 07:51:25
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Shouldn't this whole tread be under Flank Openings instead?


See my message above...   Undecided
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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TalJechin
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Re: HOBBS - ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT
Reply #12 - 02/17/05 at 05:50:03
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Shouldn't this whole tread be under Flank Openings instead?
  
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Lev D. Zilbermints
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Re: HOBBS - ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT
Reply #11 - 02/16/05 at 23:36:15
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Clearly the correct way to punish a wrong opening move 1.f4 is to play another wrong opening move 1...h6, wait, NO.  I have a feeling h6 is not going to prove to be a useful move in any line but your intended gambit line since f4 blocks the bishop on c1 from going to g5 so it will never prevent a pin anyways.  However, it might weaken up the king side light squares that white is ready to attack in many lines.


You know, most people who play the Bird's Opening, 1 f4 , follow up with 2 Nf3 . Of course, the other way is to play 1 f4, 2 b3 .  However, in my games, the move 2 Nf3 is seen more than 2 b3 .  Later I'll post more of my games here with the HOBBS-ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT.
  
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JEGutman
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Re: HOBBS - ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT
Reply #10 - 02/15/05 at 23:45:51
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Clearly the correct way to punish a wrong opening move 1.f4 is to play another wrong opening move 1...h6, wait, NO.  I have a feeling h6 is not going to prove to be a useful move in any line but your intended gambit line since f4 blocks the bishop on c1 from going to g5 so it will never prevent a pin anyways.  However, it might weaken up the king side light squares that white is ready to attack in many lines.
  
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MNb
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Re: HOBBS - ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT
Reply #9 - 02/14/05 at 20:10:01
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"even after 1 f4 h6  2 Nc3 g5 3 fg5 hg5 you can have the HZ Gambit"
I already indicated, that 3.d4 is better.

"Let me see White get a transposition into the King's Gambit without a Black pawn on e5."
My remark on the transposition to the King's Gambit was an answer to Ben Hague's post.
Sorry, if I did not made myself clear enough, but I must also say, that LDZ does not always read carefully. This is something I am also guilty of now and then.

"The answer is that after (1 f4 h6 2 Nc3) 2...g5 is hardly
the only move."
This lead me to the conclusion, that the HZ-Gambit is only playable after 1.f4 h6 2.Nf3.

"I said nothing about 2 Nf3 being the only move."
Did someone accuse LDZ of this?

Still I doubt, if 1.f4 h6 2.b3 really is a lesser move; as I have stated before, the two games I found are not exemplary. 2.b3 is a natural move, that fits in White's setup, while it discourages Black's gambit idea.
My main point is, that White has several positional tries to prove, that 1...h6 is just of loss of tempo.
End of debate - for the time being - as far as I am concerned.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Lev D. Zilbermints
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Re: HOBBS - ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT
Reply #8 - 02/13/05 at 22:26:45
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Sounds like Black only can play the HZ-gambit after 1.f4 h6 2.Nf3 (a natural move, I have to admit). Well, thanks for the warning, I am satisfied with the solid 2.Nc3, when 1...h6 might prove a loss of tempo.
I would not trust Black's chances after 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4 h6 - sorry, I mean 1.f4 h6 2.e4 e5 3.Bc4 exf4 either.


From your post, I determine  that you are an aficinado of the King's Gambit. Frankly, even after 1 f4 h6  2 Nc3 g5 3 fg5 hg5 you can have the HZ Gambit. I said nothing about 2 Nf3 being the only move. Other, lesser second moves  are 2 b3; 2 Nc3; 2 d3; 2 h4?!  That is first.

Secondly, after 1 f4 h6 2 Nc3  Black can always play 2...c6; 2...d5; 2...Nc6; or any other move than 2...e5
Let me see White get a transposition into the King's Gambit without a Black pawn on e5.

  Last, of course  Black can try 2...g5, the Macho Grob. I am sure IM Basman would be interested in this.
  
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MNb
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Re: HOBBS - ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT
Reply #7 - 02/12/05 at 23:05:34
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Sounds like Black only can play the HZ-gambit after 1.f4 h6 2.Nf3 (a natural move, I have to admit). Well, thanks for the warning, I am satisfied with the solid 2.Nc3, when 1...h6 might prove a loss of tempo.
I would not trust Black's chances after 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4 h6 - sorry, I mean 1.f4 h6 2.e4 e5 3.Bc4 exf4 either.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Lev D. Zilbermints
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Re: HOBBS - ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT
Reply #6 - 02/11/05 at 11:04:09
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The answer is that after (1 f4 h6 2 Nc3) 2...g5 is hardly
the only move. Yes, it can be played as you recommend. Yes, I found the same 2 games on chesslive.de database. However, if you look closely, both of these games were a Bird's Opening, without tranposition into the Hobbs-Zilbermints Gambit.

Also, if at some point early on (usually by move 9) White plays ...e4, play can transpose into the Macho Grob. As long as you know the opening, it is nothing to be afraid of.

Keep me posted on your experiments.
  
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MNb
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Re: HOBBS - ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT
Reply #5 - 02/08/05 at 21:23:19
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I have found two games; White played 2.b3 and scored one draw and one loss. But play was hardly exemplary.
What about 2.Nc3 g5 3.d4 gxf4 4.Bxf4 and 5.e4 with a smooth development?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: HOBBS - ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT
Reply #4 - 02/08/05 at 16:32:31
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First, after 1 f4 h6  2 e4  Black can play  any other move than 2...g5 .  For example, 2...Nc6 , 2...d5


Maybe 2...e5 is possible when it's not clear to me that White has anything better than transposing into a mainstream King's Gambit after 3.Nf3 or 3.Bc4 exf4.
  
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Lev D. Zilbermints
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Re: HOBBS - ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT
Reply #3 - 02/08/05 at 13:09:43
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Here is my response.

First, after 1 f4 h6  2 e4  Black can play  any other move than 2...g5 .  For example, 2...Nc6 , 2...d5

  Secondly, if Black does decide to play 2...g5, the game transposes to the Macho Grob opening, or Borg, as IM Michael Basman calls it.

  Third, the move 1...h6 hardly rated a "?!"  since play has barely began. I have seen players play 1 a3 and later, 2 b4, or 2 c4.

  And last, White plays the  2 Nf3  g5  3 fg5 variation very frequently. In fact, I am preparing a series of articles (maybe even a book!) on the Hobbs (1 f4 g5) and the Hobbs-Zilbermints (1 f4 h6  2 Nf3 g5 3 fg5) Gambits. Of course, I cover transpositions to other openings, including the Grob, there.

Why don't you try the Hobbs and Hobbs-Zilbermints Gambits yourself and tell me how you did?
  
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HgMan
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Re: HOBBS - ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT
Reply #2 - 02/04/05 at 20:34:51
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What's wrong with just taking over the center?  1 f4 h6?! 2 e4 g5 3 d3 (or 3 d4)?  Why should White be compelled to take a flank pawn and open lines of attack against his kinsgide, when s/he can just develop casually without any challenge in the center of the board?   Undecided

Chromatic control of squares, indeed!

Should this not be a discussion on Flank Openings?
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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Kyle Truhe
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Re: HOBBS - ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT
Reply #1 - 02/04/05 at 14:28:55
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i smell a hot book deal!

  
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