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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How to combat the King's Indian? (Read 40683 times)
woofwoof
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Re: How to combat the King's Indian?
Reply #20 - 08/12/05 at 03:34:11
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If you have difficulty defending the big center as White in the KID, but you like Grunfeld positions as White, you can play the Smyslov System.  It isn't really a system so much as an idea of getting out of the opening alive without giving Black too much.  Basically, White plays 1d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 and if 3...Bg7, White can wimp out and play 4.Bf4.  White scores quite well in practical games against relatively low rated opponents.  It won't do much against a strong (2300+) player, but even then you won't be lost out of the opening.


My apologies Smyslov_fan. This already answers & clarifies my queries. I was too shocked or surprised to think about anything else when I saw 'Smyslov system' against the KID that i didnt read carefully the rest. Mea maxima culpa! Sorry once again! Embarrassed
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: How to combat the King's Indian?
Reply #19 - 08/12/05 at 03:05:27
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Hmm...

Yeah, Smyslov did indeed play an early Bg5 and e3 against the KID quite often.  He even scored some successes with it, so I guess that probably is the official "Smyslov System".  But in the late rounds of Zurich, he essayed 4.Bf4 and made comfortable draws.  I wonder if both Bf4 and Bg5 couldn't be credited to Smyslov?  After all, he was one of the most inventive players of all time, judging by the number of valid variations that are named after him!


BTW:  Toppy, White to play 1.d4! avoids Fischer's famous blunder!  We aren't all Ostap Bender students here.  Wink Even Fischer began to see the light when he would play the QGD (by transposition)!  Grin
  
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castlerock
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Re: How to combat the King's Indian?
Reply #18 - 08/12/05 at 01:28:07
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I still feel 6.Bg5 Saemisch is a nice way to combat Kings Indian. Light on theory and half the time KID kid doesn't know what to do!

Apparently it has not caught the imagination of many 1.d4 players.
  

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Teyko
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Re: How to combat the King's Indian?
Reply #17 - 08/11/05 at 22:06:33
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That's funny Top
  
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TopNotch
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Re: How to combat the King's Indian?
Reply #16 - 08/11/05 at 21:40:27
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Maybe the best way to combat the King's Indian is 1.e4.

Tops Grin
  

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woofwoof
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Re: How to combat the King's Indian?
Reply #15 - 08/11/05 at 10:03:38
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@ Smyslov_fan 

I'm a little confused here:

1) There is a Smyslov system against the KID??? what's the move order like?? A brief explanation of the basic idea would be nice if possible.

or are you talking about:

2) The Smyslov System Complex in the Grunfeld?? I thought it was for the black side where black plays (vaguely recalling) something to do with a certain B-KN5 followed by a KN-Q2 move order.?? The way you wrote seems to suggest that its for white but  applying the same white vs grunfeld idea to the KID instead. (hence not found in KID but Grunfeld books). Am I understanding you correctly???

  

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Re: How to combat the King's Indian?
Reply #14 - 08/11/05 at 03:20:48
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As I understand it, the Smyslov System does not involve Bf4 but rather Bg5, followed by e3 (rather than e4).  It is seen as rather innocuous, but it is not without a certain element of danger for the second player, who can easily be tempted into reckless loosening lunges to 'punish' White for his peaceable approach.
  

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Re: How to combat the King's Indian?
Reply #13 - 08/10/05 at 21:59:03
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If you have difficulty defending the big center as White in the KID, but you like Grunfeld positions as White, you can play the Smyslov System.  It isn't really a system so much as an idea of getting out of the opening alive without giving Black too much.  Basically, White plays 1d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 and if 3...Bg7, White can wimp out and play 4.Bf4.  White scores quite well in practical games against relatively low rated opponents.  It won't do much against a strong (2300+) player, but even then you won't be lost out of the opening.
  
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woofwoof
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Re: How to combat the King's Indian?
Reply #12 - 08/06/05 at 01:10:34
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The saemisch is probably the sharpest way of battling the KID these days. The f3 move usually serves as a pivot for the g4,h4 pawn storm on black's positon after q-side castling., ala yugoslav attack in the dragon, or english attack on the Najdorf. This ususally stifles black's thematic K-side attack starting after f5. Black's alternate plan woud be to create q-side play with the Byrne system ...a6, ...c6 ...b5 or the Panno ....Nc6, ...a6,....Rb1,....b5 which will allow q-side play or center play. Play is complex for both sides in the saemisch.

For something a little more 'subdued' the fianchtto system would be a good system. But black also has the potential of storming the q-side. I remember this game by Bronstein which i saw eons ago where he stormed the q-side with his a-pawn and pieces, sucessfully opening up the a  & b files & finally penetrating with his rooks. White's plan is to strengthen his centre and look for some play on the K-side. or the centre later on.

Alternatively there are systems which restrain certain moves eg the Averbach with 6.Bg5 to restrain the 6...e5 move. Or the Petrosian system with 7.d5 & 8 Bg5 to blunt the effect of black's eventual f5.

In the main line...white allows black's k-side push whilst storming the Q-side with the Bayonet attack.

Of course there is the 4 pawns attack - probably the most overtly aggressive system against black. The saemisch was supposedly a more 'subdued' version of the 4 -pawns. Since you are not looking for something to aggressive, I shall not recommend this to you.

Whatever the system you choose ......as long as you are playing against the KID you cannot help but be prepared to play sharply as well unfortunately. There's really no such thing as a quiet positional white game against the KID.

However if at the end of the day.. if you decide that play against the KID is too sharp for your liking..... than it would have to be an anti-indian - Tromp or Torre. Being a KID player I REALLY hate those anti -indians.
  

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basqueknight
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Re: How to combat the King's Indian?
Reply #11 - 07/22/05 at 06:51:56
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I myself play the fianchetto variation. Not because i am a positional player but also because when i started looking at the kings indian i wanted to know what to play against it. I looked at a lot of games from David Bronstien from both sides. He was the pioneer of this system and if you are looking to see both sides one must check out the games of the classical interpratation.
  
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Re: How to combat the King's Indian?
Reply #10 - 03/09/05 at 03:59:12
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Thanks a million for the games Castlerock, I will have a look at them tonight.
  
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Re: How to combat the King's Indian?
Reply #9 - 03/09/05 at 00:54:26
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If you are interested in the Samisch set-up, you could do worse than think about f3 in response to most Indians, including the Nimzo.


a great idea of course, and it's worked well for me. like i said elsewhere, it's a very thematic and logical repertoire. 
The only problem is, white appears to have no 'theoretical' advantage in certain variations (e.g. nimzo or 3. f3 grunfeld). then again, which opening guarantees white an advantage?

About the samisch, i would describe it as a 'positionally'- aggresive system (aside from the crude king side hacks). White's main lines usually involve a stifling of black's counterplay. Black feels obliged to act violently for fear of strangulation. In this sense, the samisch is quite similar other f3 systems: Black is usually the one generating all the play because if he sits still he is going to get squashed.
  
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castlerock
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Re: How to combat the King's Indian?
Reply #8 - 03/09/05 at 00:52:48
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Another couple of games. First is a smooth win. Second is a murder before suicide Sad

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f3 O-O 6. Bg5 c5 7. d5 e6 8. Qd2
exd5 9. cxd5 Re8 10. a4 Nbd7 11. Nh3 Ne5 12. Nf2 Bd7 13. Be2 Bc8 14. O-O h5
15. Rae1 b6 16. h3 Bb7 17. f4 Ned7 18. Bc4 Qc7 19. e5 dxe5 20. d6 Qc6 21.
Nfe4 exf4 22. Rxf4 Nxe4 23. Bxf7+ Kh7 24. Nxe4 Rf8 25. Be7 Ne5 26. Ng5+ Kh8
27. Rf6 Nc4 28. Qf2 Ne5 29. Rxe5


1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.f3 0-0 6.Bg5 Nbd7
7.Nh3 c5 8.d5 Ne5 9.Nf2 Qa5 10.Qd2 a6 11.Be2 Rb8 12.a4
Bd7 13.0-0 Qb4 14.b3 Bc8 15.a5 b5 16.f4 Ned7 17.Rfb1
Ne8 18.Rc1 bxc4 19.Bxc4 Nef6 20.Nd3 Nxe4 21.Qe1 Bd4+
22.Kf1 Bxc3 23.Qxe4 Qb7 24.Rxc3 Re8 25.Rcc1 Nf8 26.Qf3
Bf5 27.Kg1 Qa7 28.Bh4 Bxd3 29.Qxd3 Nd7 30.Bf2 Nf6
31.Rab1 Qd7 32.Bxa6 Ra8 33.Bb5 Qd8 34.Bxe8 Qxe8 35.a6
Qc8 36.Ra1 Qb8 37.Ra4 Ng4 38.Bg3 Qb6 39.f5?? c4+
40.Kf1 cxd3 41.Rxg4
  

CastleRock
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castlerock
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Re: How to combat the King's Indian?
Reply #7 - 03/09/05 at 00:36:09
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Hi King,

Sorry for the delay in posting the game. I couldn't go near the compute when I got back home. Here is a game with Benoni set up. I'll post one more later.

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.f3 0-0 6.Bg5 c5
7.d5 Re8 8.Qd2 e6 9.Nge2 exd5 10.cxd5 Nbd7 11.Nc1 Rb8
12.a4 a6 13.Be2 Qb6 14.Be3 Qc7 15.0-0 c4 16.a5 b5
17.axb6 Nxb6 18.N1a2 a5 19.Nb5 Qd8 20.Nac3 a4 21.Nd4
Bd7 22.Kh1 Qe7 23.Bf2 Qf8 24.Be3 Re7 25.Rfd1 Qe8
26.Bf4 Nc8 27.Rac1 Nh5 28.Bg5 f6 29.Bh4 Qf8 30.f4 Bh6
31.Bxh5 gxh5 32.Qf2 Rf7 33.Rb1 f5 34.Ne6 Bxe6 35.dxe6
Rg7 36.Nd5 Rbb7 37.e7 Nxe7 38.Bxe7 Rbxe7 39.Nxe7+ Rxe7
40.Rxd6 Rxe4 41.Qg3+ Kh8 42.Rbd1 Re8 43.h3 Qe7 44.Rxh6
Blunders and resigns
  

CastleRock
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Re: How to combat the King's Indian?
Reply #6 - 03/08/05 at 12:50:16
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If you are interested in the Samisch set-up, you could do worse than think about f3 in response to most Indians, including the Nimzo.  Hans Berliner's The System advocates this repertoire.  His notion of a "system" is a little skewed, but the chess is good and is worth a look.
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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