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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Question about the so-called anti-Sveshnikov (Read 6741 times)
Glenn Snow
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Re: Question about the so-called anti-Sveshnikov
Reply #10 - 09/26/05 at 01:39:34
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I don't think 3...e5 questions White's move order anymore than 3...g6 does (actually this really could be a matter of tastes).  I do think the latter does a better job of creating winning chances against an opponent wanting to take it easy as White.  Having said that, I still agree with the rest of your post.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Question about the so-called anti-Sveshnikov
Reply #9 - 09/26/05 at 01:25:05
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Glenn,

Before the Leko game, I thought ...g6 was the move for Black.  But I like the idea of contesting the dark squares in the center directly.  3...e5 questions White's move order.

If White wanted to play a GPA, then he's in for some serious re-thinking.  (See Daniel's variations for an idea of whether it's actually any good for White.)  If White wanted to play an Open Sicilian, then his move order has really backfired.   

So while 3...g6 is probably still perfectly playable, now White has another variation to worry about.  And if White has to memorise all the variations that Daniel Boix has given us, then 3...e5 is almost certainly playable for Black against players below the IM/GM level.And judging by who's been playing it as Black, we may see it in Argentina! Cool! 8)
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Question about the so-called anti-Sveshnikov
Reply #8 - 09/25/05 at 23:50:03
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1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 g6 has been recommended before as a good system.  Black offers White the chance to go into the Accelerated Dragon where he has lost the chance of getting a Maroczy bind.  4.h4 has been counter-recommended, but I doubt this is something Black should really fear.  If it is then it should be debated in another thread.
  
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Andrew Brett
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Re: Question about the so-called anti-Sveshnikov
Reply #7 - 09/13/05 at 06:53:29
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your spoiling us more than Top !
  
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lnn2
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Re: Question about the so-called anti-Sveshnikov
Reply #6 - 09/12/05 at 20:28:39
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smyslov_fan: 3. Nc3 e5 seems drastic, both 0-0/Ng5 or Nd2 should give White a small edge. My choice is 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bb5 Qc7!?, which has been tried by both Leko and Van Wely, and  it seems more dynamic and "correct"!
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Question about the so-called anti-Sveshnikov
Reply #5 - 09/12/05 at 16:14:40
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That's a lot of variations to go through, Daniel!  Thanks for all that information.

So, am I right in reading what you say as White has a small edge in the most critical lines?

If so, then 3.Nc3 e5 is not only playable, but may even be the best line for Black.  What do you think, can we make such a broad statement?
  
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Daniel_Boix
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Re: Question about the so-called anti-Sveshnikov
Reply #4 - 09/12/05 at 09:36:24
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My modest opinion is:

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 e5 4. Bc4 Be7

(4... d6 5. O-O h6 6. d3 g5 7. Nd5 Bg7
8. c3 Nge7 9. h4 g4 10. Nh2 Nxd5 11. exd5 Nb8 12. Bb5+ Kf8 13. Nxg4 Qxh4 14. Ne3 Rg8 15. Qf3 a6 16. Bc4 Nd7 17. Nf5  small for white, Geller,J - Kokarev, Sant Petersburg 2002)

5. d3 d6

(5... Nf6 6. Ng5 O-O 7. f4 exf4 8. Bxf4 d6

(8... d5 ? 9. exd5 Nb4 (9... Nxd5 10. Nxf7!) 10. O-O Bg4 11. Qd2 Nbxd5 12. Rae1 (12. Be5!?) 12... Nxf4 13. Nxf7 (13. Qxf4 Bh5 14. g4 Bg6 15. h4 h5 16. gxh5 Bxh5 17. Qg3 {small for white, Balashov})
13... Rxf7 14. Qxf4 Qd7 15. h3 Bh5 16. g4 Bg6 17. g5 Bd6 18. Qf3 small for white, Kupreichik - Vaulin, Sant Petersburg 2000)

9. O-O {->8...ef4 9.Bf4}) 6. O-O Nf6 (6... Be6?! 7. Nd5 Nf6 (7... h6 8. Ne1 Bxd5 (8...Nf6 9. f4 {with iniciative}) 9. exd5 Na5 10. Bb5+ Kf8 11. c4 {small for white})
8. Ng5 Bxd5 9. exd5 Nb8 10. f4 exf4 (10... Nbd7 11. Qf3 a6 12. a4 h6 13. Qh3
O-O 14. Nf3) 11. Bxf4 O-O 12. Qe2 Nbd7 13. Rae1 Re8 14. Nxf7 ! Kxf7 15.
Qe6+ Kf8 16. g4! 18 a6 17. g5 b5 18. Re3 Ne5 19. Bxe5 dxe5 20. g6 1:0 Volokitin - Kozul, Portoroz 2001)

(6... Bg4 7. h3 Bh5 8. Nd5 Nf6 9. Ne3 Nd4 10. g4 Bg6 11. c3 Nxf3+ 12. Qxf3 Qd7 13. g5 Nh5 14. Nd5 Bd8 (14... O-O
15. Qg4 Qd8 16. f4) 15. Qg4 a6 16. a4 f5 17. exf5 Qxf5 18. Qg2  Bf7 19.f4 O-O 20. fxe5 Qxe5 21. Bd2  Kupreichik - Vaulin, Tula 2002)

7. Ng5 O-O
8. f4 Bg4

(8... exf4 9. Bxf4 h6

(9... Na5 10. Qd2 Nxc4 11. dxc4 Bg4 (11... Nh5 12. Be3 Bf6 13. Qd5 $1 g6 14. Nb5 Bxg5 15. Bxg5 Be6 16. Qd2 f6 17. Bh6 Bxc4 18. Nxd6 Bxf1 19. Qd5+ Kh8 20. Bxf8 Qxf8 21. Rxf1 Qe7 22. g4 Ng7 23. Qxb7
1:0 Kupreichik - Permiakov, Kemerovo 1995)
12. Nf3 Re8 13. Qf2 Qb6 14. b3 Bh5
15. Rae1 Qc6 16. h3 Rad8 (16... Bg6! 17. e5 unclear) 17. Nh4! Bg6 18.Nxg6 fxg6 19. Qf3 h6 {Topalov - Van Wely, Wijk aan Zee 2003} 20. Bxh6!? gxh6 21. Nd5 Nxd5 22. Qf7+ Kh8 23. exd5 Qd7 24. Re6 {Van Wely})

10. Nf3 Be6 (10... Na5 11. Bd5 Nxd5 12. Nxd5 Re8 13. Qe1 Bf8 14. Qg3 Re6 15. Bd2 Nc6 16. Bc3
Ne7 17. Nf4 {with plus for white, Kovalev - Mudrak, League 2001})

11. Nd5 Bxd5
12. exd5 Na5 (12... Nb4 13. Bd2! Nbxd5 14. Nh4 Nb6 (14... Nc7 15. Nf5 d5 16.
Bb3 Kh7 17. Bc3 {with attack, Sutovsky}) 15. Nf5 Nxc4 (15... d5 16. Qe1 Bd6 (16... dxc4 17. Nxe7+ Kh7 18. Rxf6 {Tiviakov - Ledger, Gibraltar 2003})
17. Qh4 Ne8 (17... dxc4 18. Nxh6+ gxh6 19. Rxf6 {with attack}) 18. Qg4 {with compensation, Sutovsky}) 16. dxc4 Nh7 17. Bf4 Bf6 18. Bxd6 Re8 19. Qg4 Bd4+ 20. Kh1 Qg5 21. Qf3 Bxb2 22. Rab1 Bf6 23. Rxb7 {with plus for white, Smirin - Avrukh, Israel (ch) 2002}) (12... Nd4 13. Nxd4
cxd4 14. Qf3 {white is better}) 13. Nh4 Nxc4 (13... b5 14. Nf5!! great move! bxc4 15. Bxh6 gxh6 (15... Ne8 16. Qe1  Bf6 (16... Bh4 17. Nxh4 gxh6 18. Ng6!! cxd3 19.
Ne7+ Kh8 20. Qe3 Kh7 21. Qe4+ Kh8 22. Rf5 $3 dxc2 23. Rh5) 17. Bd2! Nb7 18. Bc3 Bg5 19. h4 Bf6 20. Bxf6 Nxf6 21. Ne7+ Kh7 22. Rxf6 gxf6 23. Qe2) 16. Nxh6+ Kh7 (16... Kh8 17. Rxf6 Bxf6 18. Qh5 Bd4+ 19. Kh1 Qe8 20. Nf5+ Kg8
21. Qg4+ Kh7 22. Qh4+ Kg8 23. Re1 cxd3 24. cxd3 Qxe1+ 25. Qxe1 Nb7 26. Qg3+ Kh7
27. Qh4+ Kg6 28. Qg4+ Kf6 29. h4! Rg8 30. Qf3 Kg6 31. Qf4) 17. Nf5!!
cxd3 (17... Re8 18. Rf3) (17... Rg8 18. Qe1 Bf8 19. Qh4+ Kg6 20. Rae1 Nxd5 21.
Re7 Qxe7 22. Nxe7+ Bxe7 23. Qe4+ Kg7 24. Qxd5 Bf6 25. Qxd6 Bd4+ 26. Kh1 cxd3
27. c3 ) (17... Rh8 18. Qe1 Nxd5 19. Qe4 Bf6 20. Qxd5 Kg8 21. Rf4 Rh5 22.
Raf1 Bxb2 23. Ne7+ Qxe7 24. Qxh5 Rf8 25. Re4 Qb7 26. Rg4+ $40) 18. Qxd3 Kh8 19.
Rae1 Qb6 20. Qh3+ Nh7 21. Rxe7 c4+ 22. Kh1 Qxb2 23. Re4 $1 Rg8 24. Qxh7+{1:0 Sutovsky - Smirin, Israel (ch) 2002}) (13... Qd7 14. Bxh6  Ng4  (14...gxh6 15. Nf5 Nxc4 16. dxc4 Kh8 17. Nxh6 Rae8 18. Rf4 {with attack}) 15. Bb5
Qc8 16. Nf5 Qxf5 17. Rxf5 Nxh6 18. Rf2 a6 19. Bd7 Rad8 20. Bh3 b5 21. Qe1 {1:0 Sebe - Barnaure, Bucarest 2003}) 14. dxc4 Nxd5 (14... Qd7  15. Bd2  Qg4
(15... Nxd5 16. Nf5) 16. Nf5 Rfe8 17. Rf3 Kh7 18. Qf1 Bf8 {
Kovalev - Sveshnikov, Rowy 1999} 19. h3 Qe4 20. Rf2 Kg8 21. Bc3) (14... g5
15. Nf5 gxf4 16. Rxf4 Re8 17. Nxh6+ Kf8 18. Qh5) 15. Qxd5 Bxh4 16.Rad1 b6 {Kramnik - Leko, Linares 2003} (16... Be7 17. Qxb7 Rb8 18. Qxa7 Rxb2 19. Qa3 Rxc2 20. Qg3) 17. Qh5 Bf6 18. Bxd6 Bd4+ 19. Rxd4 cxd4 20. Bxf8 Qxf8 21. Qd5 Rd8 22. Rxf7 Rxd5 23. Rxf8+ Kxf8 24. cxd5 Ke7 25. Kf2 Kd6 26. Kf3 Kxd5=
{Leko})

9. Qe1

(9. Nf3 exf4 10. Bxf4 Nd4 11. Kh1 Qd7 (11... a6 12. Qd2 b5 13.Bb3 Nxb3 14. axb3 d5 15. Ne5 {small for white, Anand - Van Wely, Monaco 2003})
12. Qd2 Bxf3 13. gxf3 b5 14. Bb3 a5 15. Nd5 a4 16. Nxf6+ Bxf6 17. Bd5 a3 18.Bxa8 axb2 19. Rab1 Rxa8 20. c3 Ne6 {compensation, Gelfand - Leko, Budapest 2003
})

9... exf4 10. Bxf4 Nd4 11. Qd2 h6

(11... Qd7 12. Be3 h6

(12... a6 13.Bxd4 cxd4 14. Ne2 (14. Nd5  Nxd5 (14... Rae8 15. a4 {small for white}) 15.
Bxd5 {small for white}) 14... h6 15. Nf3 d5 16. exd5 Bxf3 17. Rxf3 Nxd5 18.Nxd4 {1/2:1/2 Nisipeanu - Van Wely, Silivri 2003})

13. Nf3 Nxf3+ 14. gxf3 Be6 15. Kh1 Kh7 16. Bxe6 fxe6

(16... Qxe6 17. Rae1 Qh3 18. Qg2 Qxg2+ 19. Kxg2
small for white, with idea play f4, Bf2-h4-f6 xd5, Kramnik - Degraeve, France
2003})

17. Qg2 Qe8

(17... Rf7 18. Rg1 Raf8 19. Ne2 d5  (19... Ne8 20.
f4 {white is better}) 20. Nf4 g5 21. Ng6! {
Bologan - Radjabov, Dortmund 2003}) 18. Qh3 (18. f4!?) 18... d5 19. Ne2 Bd6
20. Rf2 Qh5 21. Qxh5 {1/2:1/2 Gallagher - San Segundo, Plovdiv 2003})
12. Nf3 Nxf3+ 13. gxf3 Be6 14. Kh1 (14. Rae1 Kh7 15. Kh1 Nh5 16. Bg3 (16. Be3!?) 16...Bh4 17. Rg1 Nxg3+ 18. hxg3 Bf6  {Topalov - Leko, Linares 2004}) 14... Kh7 15. Rae1 (15. Qg2 d5 16. Rg1 g6 17. exd5 Nxd5 18. Nxd5 Bxd5 19. Qh3 h5 20.Rae1 Bf6  {Shirov - Leko, Linares 2004}) 15... Qd7 (15... Nh5 16. Be3!?)

16. Rg1 a6 17. Qg2 Rg8 18. Bd2 g6 19. f4 {small for white, Guseinov - Vescovi, Tripoli Wch 2004}

That's all!
  
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ArKheiN
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Re: Question about the so-called anti-Sveshnikov
Reply #3 - 07/28/05 at 12:21:04
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Quote:
Hello, fellow chess geniuses:


What do y'all think of this line: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 e5 4. Bc4 d6 5. 0-0 Be7 6. d3 Nf6 7. Ng5 0-0 8. f4


This line is usually played by White, at high level, that's an interesting way to not allow the Sveshnikov.

The anectode is that Sveshnikov is the first who have played this sequence  with White on 1973 in the chesslive database.
  
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Re: Question about the so-called anti-Sveshnikov
Reply #2 - 07/28/05 at 04:17:56
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It looks to me like a very good version of the Giouco piannissimo for white. In stead of a bishop on c5 there is a pawn. Not that I think it is that good mind you as I think that version of the Italian is equal at most.
What I know from that line is that white should get his knight from c3 asap to be able to move the pawn to c3. So I think 5 d3 Be7 6 Nd5 is more accurate for white.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Question about the so-called anti-Sveshnikov
Reply #1 - 07/27/05 at 10:41:08
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I just analyzed Shirov-Leko : each side has made errors , so it's not definitely good for Black : several times White was winning , so I wait improvement for each side to make my opinion
  
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Question about the so-called anti-Sveshnikov
03/21/05 at 11:36:10
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Hello, fellow chess geniuses:


What do y'all think of this line: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 e5 4. Bc4 d6 5. 0-0 Be7 6. d3 Nf6 7. Ng5 0-0 8. f4 exf 9. Bxf4 Bg4 10. Qe1(d1) Nd4. I've seen this set-up played, as black, by Leko, in his game against Shirov and black won a very nice game. What is the concensus? Is this THE line that black plays to get good, dynamic counterplay? Susan Polgar gave a line for black in the latest issue of  Chess Life, but I think that line for black is passive compared to this line of play. Any masters out there have any opinions on this?   Cry
  
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