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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) BENONI 'declined' with e3 (Read 13708 times)
Glenn Snow
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Re: BENONI 'declined' with e3
Reply #22 - 05/23/06 at 10:23:46
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More analysis and opinions about e3 in the thread http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1065327267/0#0
  
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Scholar
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Re: BENONI 'declined' with e3
Reply #21 - 05/23/06 at 03:23:36
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Yes -- I probably should have made it move obvious that I was quoting form a different thread.  I mentioned this line in a Panov thread, saying that I was reaching it from an anti-benoni move order and so I wasn't interested in the earlier deviations, but alumbrado asked about them anyway.  Rather than debate deviations there, I figured that if there was a suggestion for an alternative line for Black, that it could be discussed here (although I'm quite happy with the Caro-Kann line, myself).
  
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Markovich
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Re: BENONI 'declined' with e3
Reply #20 - 05/22/06 at 20:02:54
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Scholar wrote on 05/12/06 at 01:02:59:
alumbrado wrote on 05/11/06 at 15:22:03:
I know you said you weren't interested in earlier deviations but I am interested in the Anti-Benoni move order to which the original post refers.  Roll Eyes

After 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.e3 Black should be in no hurry to play ...cxd4 and ...d5.  3...g6! looks best keeping the idea of ...d5 in reserve.

Presumably you are getting there from 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c5 4.e3 then?


The move order that I have in mind is: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.c4 c5 4.e3 cxd4 5.exd4 d5 6.Nc3 Bb4

I guess you might suggest here that I play 4...g6, but now my opinion begins to become similar to that of Smyslov_Fan.


This is a Caro-Kann, Panov-Botvinnik.
  

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Re: BENONI 'declined' with e3
Reply #19 - 05/12/06 at 01:02:59
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alumbrado wrote on 05/11/06 at 15:22:03:
I know you said you weren't interested in earlier deviations but I am interested in the Anti-Benoni move order to which the original post refers.  Roll Eyes

After 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.e3 Black should be in no hurry to play ...cxd4 and ...d5.  3...g6! looks best keeping the idea of ...d5 in reserve.

Presumably you are getting there from 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c5 4.e3 then?


The move order that I have in mind is: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.c4 c5 4.e3 cxd4 5.exd4 d5 6.Nc3 Bb4

I guess you might suggest here that I play 4...g6, but now my opinion begins to become similar to that of Smyslov_Fan.
  
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Re: BENONI 'declined' with e3
Reply #18 - 05/10/06 at 01:41:11
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Well, for me, it's not so much that the Symmetrical Tarrasch is boring as I prefer to keep the more solid pawn structure if possible*.  In addition to the Bb4 lines, I have played more simply, just with Be7 and b6, but I think the development of the bishop to b4 is, perhaps, stronger.

*I admit this sort of dogmatism is not good, especially if one is seeking a more dynamic continuation(!), but we all have our preferences.
  
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Markovich
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Re: BENONI 'declined' with e3
Reply #17 - 05/09/06 at 20:39:33
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1. d4 Nf6  2. c4 c5  3. e3 may not be very bloodthirsty, but it's perfectly good for White.  If Black goes for the Gruenfeld setup, White plays a Tarrasch Defense with extra tempo.  There have been some recent articles in NIC Yearbook claiming that the extra tempo is not useful, but I find that difficult to believe.  If Black goes for a Tarrasch, you have the Symmetrical Tarrasch.  It's a game of chess, so if this is "boring" then chess is boring.
  

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Re: BENONI 'declined' with e3
Reply #16 - 05/09/06 at 05:42:58
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I can't say that I share the enthusiasm for playing the (Symmetrical or Semi)-Tarrasch, but I'm not sure I have much useful advice, as personally, I've been going for a transposition to the P-B Caro-Kann: 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.c4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e6 6.Nf3 Bb4 via transposition, which I think offers Black interesting play.
  
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John Cox
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Re: BENONI 'declined' with e3
Reply #15 - 11/17/05 at 12:58:56
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Wedberg-Agrest, Linkoping 2001, is a Black model.

As to literature, I suppose more or less anything on the QGA. My own modest work does of course cover the ground excellently as well (ahem).

In truth though this will only arise from this move order if White doesn't know what he's doing, since he simply gets a slightly bad version of the QGA.
  
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iggystiv
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Re: BENONI 'declined' with e3
Reply #14 - 11/15/05 at 20:07:39
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John,

Iv'e seen this plan with ...a6 before ...Nc6 in these Queen's gambit positions.  One of the ideas, I believe is to play ..dxc, with ..b5 and ..Nbd7-to b6.  Can you illustrate more of the ideas in this middlegame position,  or, possibly direct me to some literature or games on the subject?

-thanks
  
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John Cox
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Re: BENONI 'declined' with e3
Reply #13 - 11/08/05 at 20:50:09
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Oh go on then.....

Tromp 2...e6, Veresov 3...c5, Torre 3...h6 4 Bh4 Nbd7 or the main line with ..c5...b6...Bb7...Be7, Colle 3...c5 4 c3 b6 5 Bd3 Be7 6 Nbd2 Bb7 7 00 Nc6, Colle-Zukertort the same sort of stuff with d5 in, London either the same QID-type set-up or d5/e6/c5/Nf6/Nc6 (or 3..c5 for folk who have ...d5 in already), 2 Bg5 the usual ..c.6...h6..Bf5 stuff, BDG either 3..Nxe4 or 3....e5.
  
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Re: BENONI 'declined' with e3
Reply #12 - 11/08/05 at 16:24:20
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John,

plug some more : what lines do you suggest against the other 'deviations' ?
  
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castlerock
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Re: BENONI 'declined' with e3
Reply #11 - 11/07/05 at 01:30:04
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It could be that White plays e3 because he prefers more "classical" positions (such as those arising in the Semi-Tarrasch).  For example, I don't think that Paul Keres was a wimp, but I seem to recall him "declining" the Benoni with e3 versus opponents such as (Fridrik) Olafsson and Mecking. 




Yes. Contrary to popular belief. Semi-Tarrasch is no push over. IQP game resulting from Semi Tarrasch is to my personal liking from the white side. Typical Bishop Vs Knight end game arising out of it can be fascinating. Imho, Someone equipped with Flhor- Capablanca can play Semi Tarrasch confidently from the white side.
  

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Re: BENONI 'declined' with e3
Reply #10 - 11/06/05 at 16:14:20
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Well when the guy throws in e3 he is doing it mainly to bore you out and to avoid a dynamic game. Just a boring wimp.

Then the right psycological move should be to throw back d5 in his face!!


It could be that White plays e3 because he prefers more "classical" positions (such as those arising in the Semi-Tarrasch).  For example, I don't think that Paul Keres was a wimp, but I seem to recall him "declining" the Benoni with e3 versus opponents such as (Fridrik) Olafsson and Mecking. 

  
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John Cox
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Re: BENONI 'declined' with e3
Reply #9 - 11/06/05 at 15:53:53
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The idea of 4...d5 5 Nc3 a6 is that White is more or less obliged to play 6 cxd5 because either bishop moves or 6 a3 allow 6...dxc4 which is a poor version of the QGA for White. If 5...Nc6 then White can play moves to keep the tension like 6 a3 or 6 b3, which one might prefer to avoid. So one is aiming to force White to give Black the IQP, while ...a6 is a useful move in the IQP positions.

The idea of 4...a6 followed by 5...d5 is to avoid the line 4...d5 5 cxd5 exd5 6 Bb5+, which again some people prefer to avoid. Otherwise it comes to the same as 4...d5/5...a6.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: BENONI 'declined' with e3
Reply #8 - 11/06/05 at 04:16:11
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I don't really understand why 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 e6 3 Nf3 c5 4 e3 a6 is good for Black.  I much prefer the immediate 4....d5 going into a variation of the Tarrasch (or English) that is considered to be just fine for Black.

Personally, I hate the idea of playing ...e6 and ...b6 and...g6 as Black.  There are just too many holes that  White can fill if he hasn't committed to a big center with d5 and e4.  The Tarrasch versus e3 should make any player of the Black pieces happy.
« Last Edit: 11/06/05 at 16:14:01 by Smyslov_Fan »  
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