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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Rossolimo: what do you play? (Read 13944 times)
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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #23 - 09/07/05 at 08:32:01
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apologies for double post and my move numbers are wrong... but you get the gist I hope!
  
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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #22 - 09/07/05 at 08:30:39
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Should also add after 5...b5 if White plays slowly e.g. 6. d3 Blacks plan involves Qc7 threatening ...e5 (after which the Bf8 can develop) - surprisingly hard for White to stop as a d4 can still be met by cd4 Nd4 Qe5 in most cases.
  
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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #21 - 09/07/05 at 08:30:32
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Should also add after 5...b5 if White plays slowly e.g. 6. d3 Blacksplan incolves Qc7 threatening ...e5 (after which the Bf8 can develop) - surprisingly hard for White to stop as a d4 can still be met by cd4 Nd4 Qe5 in most cases.
  
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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #20 - 09/07/05 at 08:19:49
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Apologies if this has been covered before but I couldn't find it - only this mysterious 5. b3 move being quoted as almost 'refuting' 3... e6 (ok, I exaggerate slightly...).

Can someone explain to me why 4.b3/5.b3 against e6 is considered so strong by some in this forum? I've been playing this line for years with Black with good results.

e.g. 4. O-O Nge7 5. b3 a6 6. Bc6 Nc6 7. Bb2 b5 is fine for Black IMO. (Bb7 next). Note that a quick d4 by White is answered by cd4 Nd4 Qf6, a very important idea in this line.

More interesting for White against 3...e6 are the lines 4. Bc6 bc6 5. d3 followed by either Nh4/g5 (and a quick f4) once the Black N has gone to e7, or the lines where white plays an early h4. Generally both these options lead to very interesting positions.

  
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TopNotch
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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #19 - 08/01/05 at 15:34:17
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Good point voices, but I still prefer White there. Grin

For sure the Rossolimo is a bit of a nuisance for Black, as is the Alapin.

Toppers  Grin
  

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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #18 - 08/01/05 at 13:25:04
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Quote:
I guess below 2000 no one wants to play with their King on f8 on move 10 of the Opening. Grin

Its one thing for club players to follow Lutz - Piket, but quite another to understand it.

Toperts  Grin


well white has invested 2 tempi to get the king to f8, besides if for some reason you don't want to play this line then 9...Ne6 is also perfectly ok. white has to take care that the e5 pawn doesnt turn into something of a liability.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #17 - 08/01/05 at 12:39:13
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I guess below 2000 no one wants to play with their King on f8 on move 10 of the Opening. Grin

Its one thing for club players to follow Lutz - Piket, but quite another to understand it.

Toperts  Grin
  

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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #16 - 08/01/05 at 06:46:47
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Quote:
I posted this on other place in this forum but I think it is so important, that I open a new thread:

the more I look at it, the more I recognize that the Rossolimo variation is indeed a foolish thing.  
White has, whatever black plays, a deadly line
against 3..g6 this is for me 5.Re1 Nf6, 6.e5!, quite difficult; I played this some days ago and say: never again;


what is so scary for black about the line you mention roi? surely after 5Re1 Nf6 6e5 Nd5 7Nc3 Nc7 8Bxc6 dc 9Ne4 b6 10Nf6+ Kf8 11Ne4 Bg4 12d3 Ne6 black is perfectly fine (see for example Lutz-Piket 1995). There aren't too many promising deviations for white in that sequence either. I dont see any reason there why a 3..g6 player should be afraid of the 5Re1/6e5 line.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #15 - 06/02/05 at 21:41:27
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I saw this in a Knightmare I had once  Grin

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 d5 ??!!??!! 4.exd5 Qxd5 5.Nc3 Qh5 I christened it  the 'Scandacilian'

Any takers?

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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #14 - 06/02/05 at 12:30:44
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3...Nf6 4.Nc3! and we are back in very well played out territory - the guys usually get this position via the 3.Nc3, 4.Bb5 move-order. In my opinion its a lot more risky for Black than the other Rossolimo lines.
  
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Scipio_Rex
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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #13 - 06/02/05 at 09:48:46
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Hi Folks!

How about 3...Nf6 (once tried by Larsen)?
This seems to be totally forgotten, a good reason to try it out. 8)
  
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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #12 - 05/02/05 at 01:13:54
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Not that I would call myself a "better player", but at least I had a look at the Megabase concerning your idea: it is not very poplular, but in general it seems to be not-unplayable:

3..e6, 4.Bxc6 bxc6, 5.0-0 d5 or 5.d3 d5

or

3..e6, 4.0-0 a6, 5.Bxc6 bxc6, 6.Re1/d3/Nc3/c4 answereed with 6..d5

The reason, why I would definitely not recommend it, is the same reason, I dont play all in all the e6-Rossolimo, b3:
4.0-0 a6, 5.b3! or, even more cruel, 4.b3!!
  
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takchess
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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #11 - 05/01/05 at 09:48:54
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I would like to know from you better players, if in the 3..e6-Rossolimo Sicilian it is possible in all variations (both a.) 4.Bxc6 and b.) the main variation with 4.0-0 + Re1 + c3..) to reach a quick d5 ?
I am thinking of setup similar to the closed Sicilian where I play 2..e6 and after both 3.f4 or 3.g3 I play 3..d5 with good results, thats why I am interested. Any advice very welcome!
  
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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #10 - 05/01/05 at 08:59:56
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If I am not completely wrong 3..Qb6 is in the main variation nothing else then a transposition to the main line of to 3..e6:

3..Qb6, 4.Nc3 e6, 5.0-0 a6, 6.Bxc6 Qxc6, 7.d4 cxd4, 8.Nxd4 Qc7, 9. Re1

=

3..e6, 4.0-0 Nge7, 5.Re1 a6, 6.Bxc6 Nxc6, 7.d4 cxd4, 8.Nxd4 Qc7, Nc3
  
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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #9 - 05/01/05 at 04:31:39
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It is not so that it is unplayable (3..Qb6). But compared with 3..d6 you benefit nothing, thematic it is the same, the main theme is the pawn d6, white attacking it, black defending it, with the only difference that if you play 3..d6 you are quicker in development because with 3..Qb6, like you told, you lose tempi moving the queen away. I see no reason why 3..Qb6 should be interesting: 4.Nc3 e6/5.0-0 a6/6.Bxc6 Qxc6/7.d4 cxd4/8.Nxd4 or Qxd4! and 3..d6 would habe been in my opinion the far better choice.
  
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takchess
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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #8 - 05/01/05 at 02:31:32
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I am not an expert. Tell me if I am wrong. But 3..Qb6 means that you move the queen 3 times in the opening, doesn`t it? (Qb6, Qxc6 if Bxc6, Qc7 when d4 + Nxd4).
I cant believe that this can be sound ???
  
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vivanco
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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #7 - 04/30/05 at 02:00:07
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I can only agree. I tried all 3 variations, 3..g6/3..e6/3..d6 and think, that only with 3..d6 you get in all lines easy understandable positions what is for somebody <2000 very important, people of our level are usually not doing very fine with a d-pawn/e-pawn that is after 20 moves still on its initial place.
No idea why 3..d6 has the image of being "positional", play gets often very tactical.
  
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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #6 - 04/29/05 at 04:33:11
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Interesting remarks on 3 ...d6, Torre. I voiced very similar thoughts in the latest (7 April) post in the 'Rossolimo' thread, but I don't have much practical experience with this stuff (though I do play the Nimzowitsch Defence, and there are similarities between the 3 ...d6 Rossolimo and the 2 Nf3 d6/...Bg4/...e6 Nimzo!).

Would you care to give some more concrete lines?
  
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Torre
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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #5 - 04/29/05 at 02:39:44
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sorry, did mean of course against 3..g6, 5.Re1 with the threat of e5 is really very strong...
  
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Torre
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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #4 - 04/29/05 at 02:37:07
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3..Qb6 is, if I count right, a KAN with a tempo minus: no good idea.

I share your dislike of 3..e6 because of 5.b3, a very strong variation. Against 3..g6, 5.e5 is really very strong, but you have 5..e5, but if you dont like it, we need not discuss, then 3..g6 is nothing you can consider.

But there is nothing wrong with 3..d6! I play it. You dont like 0-0-0, dragon-like positions, OK, but you can instead of 6.Bxc6 (4.d4 cxd4, 5.Qxd4 Bd7..) take with bxc6 and you nearly never get 0-0-0. At least in theory not. I know that there will be some players who are so used tho this, that even if theory shows something completely different, they play 0-0-0 in the bxc6-variation, but then you have with some tricks, like develop Be7 before Nf6, good play.
Concerning 4.Bxc6 bxc6, 5.0-0 you can play e5 and then after 6.c3 immediately f5, after d3 or Re1 you play Be7 and then f5, looks very interesting.
And if White plays the main variation with Re1 + c3 you play 7.Bf1 Bg4, 8.d3 e6 or 7.Bxc6 Bxc6, 8.d4 Bxe4, 9.Bg5 Bg6 with an interesting position, that will be won by the better player, in this special kind of position you need not care that you must take back Bxf6 with gxf6.
  
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roi huypert
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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #3 - 04/28/05 at 06:58:04
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indeed 3..Qb6 looks promising and it seems like in all variations the positions resulting from the opening, are the same.
Anybody who has some experience with it?
  
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roi huypert
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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #2 - 04/28/05 at 01:29:41
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I played yesterday several games with 3.Na5 in internet games. Not bad, all opponents had to take breath before move nr. 4. Resulting positions were OK, but, as it is with black, I needed every tempo like a piece of bread to get ready with developping my kingside, and this made it happen, that at the end of the opening that knight is still on the place a5 and even a blind sees that it is there definitely misplaced.
  
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Re: Rossolimo: what do you play?
Reply #1 - 04/27/05 at 14:51:23
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maybe you like 3...Qb6 better?
I am playing around with it and, as I see it so far, you get in real all variations no matter what one you take, a typical KAN position.
Not that the KAN is what I usually play, for my taste bit too passive, but a hedgehog position is still easier to handle then many Rossolimo main lines with a hanging pawn on d7 or e7.
  
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roi huypert
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Rossolimo: what do you play?
04/27/05 at 04:53:14
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I posted this on other place in this forum but I think it is so important, that I open a new thread:

the more I look at it, the more I recognize that the Rossolimo variation is indeed a foolish thing. 
White has, whatever black plays, a deadly line

against 3..g6 this is for me 5.Re1 Nf6, 6.e5!, quite difficult; I played this some days ago and say: never again;
alternatives 5..d6, 5..e6 terrible; only 5..e5 but this is not what I want to play.

against 3..d6: 4.d4 and castling long;
well, this might be playable but I am not used to 0-0-0 positions

against 3..e6: 5.b3, very diffult, Akopian did beat Kasparov in this line, the bishop on b2 is so strong that you can only decide between Ne7/Ng6/f6 or the Kasparov-line;
whatever you take, difficult again, very difficult.

I will have now a look at 3..Na5 and 3..Qb6, it cant be worse then the main lines in the Rossolimo!
  
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