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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) recent Trompowsky crush (Read 40286 times)
photophore
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #33 - 05/03/06 at 10:37:15
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What about the line :
1 d4 Nf6
2 Bg5 Ne4
3 h4 c5
4 d5 Qb6
5 Nd2 Nxg5
6 hxg5 Qxb2
7 e4 g6
8 Rab1 Qg7
and W has not enough compensation for the pawn
  
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kaspirateur(Guest)
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #32 - 04/19/06 at 10:42:56
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MNb wrote on 04/18/06 at 10:24:41:
We will accept your apologies, if you comment on our analysis above and/or publish some of your blitz games here.  Wink



Well done Mnb !

I will publish also a follow-up of my analysis later when my job will allow me to breathe a little...
Thanks Mr Palliser and I will also be glad to see a few of your blitz games in this variation.

KASPI
  
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MNb
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #31 - 04/18/06 at 10:24:41
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We will accept your apologies, if you comment on our analysis above and/or publish some of your blitz games here.  Wink
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #30 - 04/17/06 at 11:02:45
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Sorry! Should have contributed more! For now I'm just enjoying playing this fascinating line in a few blitz games. It's certainly dangerous for Black and I don't think there's yet any consensus on the best response (refutation?!). We may find out though when somebody tries it against a 2...Ne4 and 3...c5 expert like Kotronias.
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #29 - 04/15/06 at 05:41:32
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Thanks for these two wins goes to Eric Prie for his inspiration.

(391) Markus Lammers (2531) - Equidistance (2405)
2nd PAL/CSS Freestlye Tournament - Main playchess.com #062594 (6), 19.03.2006
1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 e6 3.e4 h6 4.Bxf6 Qxf6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Nc3 Nd7 7.Qd2 a6 8.a4 c5 9.Be2 Be7 10.0–0 0–0 11.a5 Qg6 12.Qe3 cxd4 13.Nxd4 Qg5 14.Qxg5 hxg5 15.Rfd1 Nf6 16.Nf3 g4 17.Nd2 d5 18.Na4 dxe4 19.Nb6 Rb8 20.Ndc4 Rd8 21.Rxd8+ Bxd8 22.Rd1 Bc7 23.f3 gxf3 24.gxf3 Kf8 25.fxe4 Nxe4 26.Bf3 Nf6 27.b3 Ke7 28.Nxc8+ Rxc8 29.Bxb7 Rb8 30.Bc6 Rh8 31.Rd2 Rh5 32.Bb7 Bxa5 33.Rg2 g6 34.Bxa6 Bc7 35.Bb7 Rh3 36.Nd2 Bf4 37.Ne4 Nd5 38.Nf2 Rh5 39.Bxd5 Rxd5 40.Kf1 Rh5 41.h3 Bc7 42.c4 Bb6 43.Rh2 Ra5 44.Nd1 Ra1 45.Rd2 Rb1 46.Rd3 e5 47.Ke2 e4 48.Rg3 Bd4 49.Nc3 Rb2+ 50.Kd1 Bxc3 51.Rxc3 f5 52.Kc1 Rf2 53.c5 f4 54.b4 e3 55.Kd1 Rd2+ 56.Ke1 Rb2 57.Rc4 g5 58.h4 gxh4 59.Rxf4 h3 60.Rh4 h2 61.Rh7+ Ke6 Markus Lammers gibt auf 0–1


(1) Klosterfrau (2520) - Equidistance (2447)
CSS/Pal Freestyle Tourney Final (45+5) www.playchess.com (1), 08.04.2006
1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 e6 3.e4 h6 4.Bxf6 Qxf6 5.c3 d5 6.Nd2 c5 7.Ngf3 cxd4 8.exd5 exd5 9.Nxd4 Nc6 10.Bb5 a6 11.Ba4 b5 12.Nxc6 Qxc6 13.Bc2 Qe6+ 14.Kf1 Bc5 15.Nb3 Bb6 16.Qd3 Qf6 17.f3 Ra7 18.a4 bxa4 19.Nd4 a3 20.Rxa3 Re7 21.Ra1 g6 22.h4 h5 23.Ba4+ Kf8 24.Re1 Rxe1+ 25.Kxe1 Kg7 26.g3 Klosterfrau bietet Remis 26...Be6 27.Kd1 Rb8 28.Nxe6+ Qxe6 29.Kc2 Bf2 30.Bb3 Rb5 31.Ba4 Rc5 ' 32.Qd2 Be3 33.Qd3 d4 34.Bb3 Qb6 35.g4 Rb5 36.cxd4 Bxd4 37.Re1 Rc5+ 38.Kd1 Bc3 39.bxc3 Qxb3+ 40.Qc2 Qd5+ 41.Ke2 hxg4 42.Qe4 gxf3+ 43.Kf1 Qxe4 44.Rxe4 Rxc3 45.Ra4 Rc6 46.Kf2 Rf6 47.Ra1 Kf8 48.Ra2 Ke7 49.Ra3 Kd7 50.Ra5 Kc7 51.h5 gxh5 52.Rxh5 Kb6 53.Rh1 a5 54.Ra1 Kb5 55.Rb1+ Kc4 56.Ra1 Rf5 57.Rc1+ Kb3 58.Rb1+ Kc2 59.Ra1 Kb2 Klosterfrau gibt auf 0–1
  
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Sacapawn
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #28 - 03/31/06 at 18:30:15
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I have not seen a reliable antidote against
1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Ne4 3.Bf4 c5 4.f3 Qa5+ 5.c3 Nf6 6.d5 Qb6 7.e4 Qxb2 8.Nd2 Qxc3 9.Bc7
published anywhere. Has anyone else?

The posts above indicate that 9.-,Qe3+ 10.Ne2 d6 gives Black a lot of troubles after 11.Nc4 Qh6 12.Bxb8
(I am not that interested to work out all details after 21.Nxc5)

Grischuk (2724) and Alexandrov (2630) have lost with 9.-,g6 and 9.-,b6 respectively, against much lower rated opponents. These games can be found in the January update 2006 of the d-specials section.

There is also this suggestion in a previous post by gdog
Quote:
the gms recommend qe3+ne2 Na6, the idea is that qhites bishop is stuck on f1, if u play Na6 right away then i can play ne2 or bb5, but this is an interestinf idea  anyway,  worth trrying in a blitz game
Which GMs? Where was that published?
My own evaluation of this: White should avoid 11.Bf4? Nb4!! but 11.Nc4 Qh6 12.Bf4 g5 13.Be3 instead gives White plenty of compensation (at least in practical play).

My interest in this variation is from Black's point of view. Right now I'm hesitant to play the Black side of this.
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #27 - 03/31/06 at 09:13:51
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Sacapawn wrote on 03/15/06 at 18:46:28:
I did some checking of 21.Nxc5+ and it (probably) wins for White. There are many defenses available for Black to analyze, but I haven't found anything sufficient.

Since kaspirateur has promised more details later of his analyses I will not give mine now.


Hi !

As I have no time to post this analysis and I would like this fascinating thread to live (among all this BDG rubbish  Wink), I would be happy to see analysis of others (where is Mr Palliser who starts a thread and does not participate to the debate ? Sad).

For me, after 21 N*c5+, it's completely winning for white and it's easy to see that Black will be a piece down in many of the lines.

Maybe we should reroute the analysis in another direction (perhaps early alternatives forBlack in Chernyshov-Grishuk game).

Thx everybody !!

KASPI

  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #26 - 03/15/06 at 18:46:28
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I did some checking of 21.Nxc5+ and it (probably) wins for White. There are many defenses available for Black to analyze, but I haven't found anything sufficient.

Since kaspirateur has promised more details later of his analyses I will not give mine now.
  
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MNb
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #25 - 03/10/06 at 02:28:48
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Could you give a sample line after 21.Nxc5 ? I don't see it and feel very dumb now.  Embarrassed
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #24 - 03/09/06 at 15:55:13
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Hi every Tromp afficionado !!!

I have to much work to analyse properly on my own so I used lazyly Fritz 8 to check the analysis and it seems to be correct.

So, White can indeed play for the win in this line beacuse taking both rooks appears suicidal.

I would like to have the latest thoughts of all our preferred GMs and IMs( Prie, Martin, Palliser...).

It also seems that the line with 9... b6 10 Rc1 ! as played in Pavlovic-Alexandrov is  murderous.

Very promising indeed !!!!

SO ?????? Wink

KASPI
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #23 - 03/06/06 at 10:58:23
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MNb wrote on 03/02/06 at 02:42:43:
After the great 17.Bh3! Qxa1+ 18.Kf2 Rb7 19.Nxb7 Qxh1 20.Bxd7+ Kxd7 alas 21.Nxc5+ also is a draw. So 21.Na5 Ke8 22.Qc7 Qxh2+ 23.Ke2 Qh3 24.g4 Bxg4 25.fxg4 and here Black should play Qh1+ 26.Kd2 and only now f6 27.Qc8+ Kf7 28.Qe6+ Kg6 (Ke8 is similar to the variation of sacapawn; 29.Nb7 Qh6+ is critical) 29.Nb7 Qh6+ and I do not see, how White can avoid the queen checks.


Hi !

in fact, after checking this week-end, 21 N*c5+ is winning for white.
As I'm supposed to be working at the moment I will post those analysis later.
The Q+N duo will coordinate to win the rook on h8 and in the end will remain Q+N (the other one on e2) against Q so 1 piece up in the endgame !!!

More details later.

Thanks again

KASPI
  
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MNb
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #22 - 03/04/06 at 20:52:00
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I rather like 14.Ng3 Bg7 15.Ne3 in this line. The bishop might go to c3 instead.
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #21 - 03/04/06 at 11:18:53
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So, 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Ne4 3.Bf4 c5 4.f3 Qa5+ 5.c3 Nf6 6.d5 Qb6 7.e4 Qxb2 8.Nd2 Qxc3 9.Bc7 Qe3+ 10.Ne2 d6 11.Nc4 Qh6 12.Bxb8 seems to be good for a draw, but no more (which is more than most gambits can boost with, compare with another 2 pawn gambit under d-Pawn Specials section!).

However, white players will not be satisfied with that, so an alternative is 12.Rb1 with lots of compensation (perhaps even sufficient!) for the 2 pawns
e.g. 12.-,Na6 13.Ba5 g5 14.Bd2 Qg6 15.Qa4+ Nd7 16.Ng3 Bg7 17.Nf5 Bf6 18.Bd3
  
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MNb
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #20 - 03/02/06 at 02:42:43
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After the great 17.Bh3! Qxa1+ 18.Kf2 Rb7 19.Nxb7 Qxh1 20.Bxd7+ Kxd7 alas 21.Nxc5+ also is a draw. So 21.Na5 Ke8 22.Qc7 Qxh2+ 23.Ke2 Qh3 24.g4 Bxg4 25.fxg4 and here Black should play Qh1+ 26.Kd2 and only now f6 27.Qc8+ Kf7 28.Qe6+ Kg6 (Ke8 is similar to the variation of sacapawn; 29.Nb7 Qh6+ is critical) 29.Nb7 Qh6+ and I do not see, how White can avoid the queen checks.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #19 - 03/01/06 at 22:56:59
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Yes, Kaspiratuer, Black has the 18.-,Rb7 move!

White has a draw if he wants, but can maybe play for a win:

19.Nxb7 Qxh1 20.Bxd7+ Kxd7 21.Na5+ Ke8 22.Qc7
White is a rook down but will win the Bc8 if i'm not mistaken.
One continuation showing some possibilities is
22.-,Qxh2+ 23.Ke1 Qh3 24.g4 Bxg4 25.fxg4 f6 26.Qc8+ Kf7 27.Qe6+ Ke8 28.Nb7 Qh2 29.Qc8+ Kf7 30.Nd8+ Ke8 31.e5 dxe5 32.d6 exd6 33.Nc6+ Kf7 34.Qd7+ Kg6 35.Nd8 threatening mate in two
As I don't have any chess engine available right now I won't analyze this any further (even if I had I'm not sure I would...)

I don't find anything more than a draw after 15.Rb1 Rb7 16.Qa8 Rb8
White can avoid the repetition with 17.Qc6 but I don't see any advantage for White after 17.-,Bb7 18.Qc7 bxc4 19.Rxb7 Rd8
  
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