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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) recent Trompowsky crush (Read 21425 times)
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #48 - 09/05/18 at 20:20:49
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Last year I also tried the Bc7 pawn sac with great effect!

  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #47 - 11/18/06 at 11:02:41
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Is e7-e6 possible after 9.Bc7 ?
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #46 - 07/15/06 at 18:05:24
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Quote:
MNb wrote on 03/02/06 at 02:42:43:
After the great 17.Bh3! Qxa1+ 18.Kf2 Rb7 19.Nxb7 Qxh1 20.Bxd7+ Kxd7 alas 21.Nxc5+ also is a draw. So 21.Na5 Ke8 22.Qc7 Qxh2+ 23.Ke2 Qh3 24.g4 Bxg4 25.fxg4 and here Black should play Qh1+ 26.Kd2 and only now f6 27.Qc8+ Kf7 28.Qe6+ Kg6 (Ke8 is similar to the variation of sacapawn; 29.Nb7 Qh6+ is critical) 29.Nb7 Qh6+ and I do not see, how White can avoid the queen checks.


Hi !

in fact, after checking this week-end, 21 N*c5+ is winning for white.
As I'm supposed to be working at the moment I will post those analysis later.
The Q+N duo will coordinate to win the rook on h8 and in the end will remain Q+N (the other one on e2) against Q so 1 piece up in the endgame !!!

More details later.


OstapBender wrote on 05/15/06 at 18:11:32:
Was there a follow up post that I missed?  Is 21.Nxc5+ winning?  Still busy?


Quote:
Still busy Ostap !!!! Sad

Anyway I'm currently studying other things but I explained before the ideas !
In the end black is playing virtually 2 pieces down (Bf8 and Rh8).
I hope I will expose it more concretely soon!


Still busy ???? Sad




  

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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #45 - 07/15/06 at 14:35:11
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And there is the most recent game played in this line, I suppose.

C. Hanley - M. Sandu
Montpellier 11. 07. 2006

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 Be4 3. Bf4 c5 4. f3 Qa5+ 5. c3 Nf6 6. d5 Qb6 7. e4 Qb2 8. Nd2 Qc3 9. Bc7 b6 10. Ne2 Qa5 11. Be5 b5 12. a4 d6 13. ab5 Qc7 14. Bc3 Nbd7 15. Ba5 Qb7 16. Nc3 g6 17. Bc4 Bg7 18. 00 00 19. f4 Nb6 20. Be2 Nfd7 21. Nf3 c4 22. Kh1 a6 23. Nd4 ab5 24. Ncb5 Nc5 25. Bc3 Ne4 26. Ra8 Qa8 27. Ba1 Nd5 28. Qe1 Ndf6 29. Bc4 Bb7 30. Nc7 Qa4 31. Bb5 Qa2 32. Bc6 Bc6 33. Nc6 e6 34. Qb4 d5 35. Bd4 h5 35. Bd4 h5 36. Rc1 Ng4 37. Ne7+ Kh7 38. Bg7 Nef2+ 39. Kg1 Nh3+ 0-1
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #44 - 06/06/06 at 22:14:56
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Yes, good point and it does say on the d-pawn specials home page, "This is the perfect site for everyone who wants to throw theory hounds well and truly off the scent. Maximum psychological impact is what it's all about, as Black is led up the garden path, time and time again, blissfully unaware of his impending doom."  So GM Prie should at least try and find ways to make these others systems as dangerous (playable) as possible.  On the other hand it is good to know how to meet them, but that shouldn't take to long in the case of 4.f3.
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #43 - 06/06/06 at 21:27:07
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Quote:
I know there have been complaints at times that the only opening really covered under d-pawn specials is the Tromp.  This is off topic but certainly most of the other openings covered in this section (..."The Torre Attack, The Blackmar-Diemer Gambit, The Colle and Colle-Zukertort Systems,The Stonewall, The Veresov and The London System. For good measure, I have also thrown in the legendary Barry Attack...") don't seem as topical or critical.  Having said that there is certainly an interest in them.


Well, I don't mind a look at the other openings at all, but if there has to be this 'black to move and win attitude', at least let white play the best moves. Davies, for example, seems to think 4.e3 or 4.Nf3 should give white an edge, so why would Prie spend a whole update on 4.f3?! which no one seems to believe in anyway?!
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #42 - 06/06/06 at 16:51:17
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I know there have been complaints at times that the only opening really covered under d-pawn specials is the Tromp.  This is off topic but certainly most of the other openings covered in this section (..."The Torre Attack, The Blackmar-Diemer Gambit, The Colle and Colle-Zukertort Systems,The Stonewall, The Veresov and The London System. For good measure, I have also thrown in the legendary Barry Attack...") don't seem as topical or critical.  Having said that there is certainly an interest in them.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #41 - 06/06/06 at 09:45:49
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Hmm, has Prie taken a vacation already? Last time total focus on Tromp with h4?! and now Veresov with f3?! - why pretend to beat down doors that are already open?  Roll Eyes
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #40 - 06/05/06 at 09:40:46
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Davies cannot be blamed here. I bought his Tromp book on April 1st, 2005, and the game Chernyshov-Grischuk, in which 9. Bc7! was played for the first time, is from April 22nd (according to CA HugeBase).

So until the next Tromp book comes out, the best theory source on this line is probably this thread - combined with Eric's CP updates!

(Or has anything been written in some NIC publication - Yearbook or SOS?).
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #39 - 06/04/06 at 22:03:45
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Good idea TalJechin.  Did you email your request to him?

By the way, I'm surprised and a little disappointed not to find even a mention of 7.e4 in Davies recent book the trompowski.  I'm no expert on this opening, but other than that I think it's a good book although I'm glad I'm a subscriber so such omissions are not overly troublesome.  Maybe this idea wasn't known at the time of the writing since it's publication date is 2005.


Nope, assumed he'd be watching the debate here - but feel free to remind him!

Publication date is a bit relative, as printers and corrections etc tend to steal at least a couple of months for most books. Maybe he states a more specific date in his introduction?
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #38 - 06/04/06 at 21:13:36
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Good idea TalJechin.  Did you email your request to him?

By the way, I'm surprised and a little disappointed not to find even a mention of 7.e4 in Davies recent book the trompowski.  I'm no expert on this opening, but other than that I think it's a good book although I'm glad I'm a subscriber so such omissions are not overly troublesome.  Maybe this idea wasn't known at the time of the writing since it's publication date is 2005.
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #37 - 06/04/06 at 12:41:58
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The following game would be nice to see dissected by Prie in the next update!

Trent,L (2423) - Hebden,M (2523) [A45]
Jack Speigel Mem Southend ENG (7), 17.04.2006

1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Ne4 3.Bf4 c5 4.f3 Qa5+ 5.c3 Nf6 6.d5 Qb6 7.e4 Qxb2 8.Nd2 Qxc3 9.Bc7 b6 10.Rc1 Qa5 11.Be5 Ba6 12.Bc3 Qa3 13.Nc4 Bxc4 14.Bxc4 d6 15.Bd2 a6 16.Rc3 Qb2 17.Ne2 b5 18.Bb3 Qa3 19.Nd4 g6 20.e5 dxe5 21.d6 Qb4 22.Rc4 Qxc4 23.Bxc4 exd4 24.Qb3 e6 25.Bxe6 Ra7 26.Bxf7+ Rxf7 27.Qe6+ Be7 28.0-0 0-0 29.dxe7 Re8 30.Qd6 Nbd7 31.Re1 c4 32.Bb4 d3 33.Qxa6 Rb8 34.Qd6 Rc8 35.Bc3 1-0

  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #36 - 05/16/06 at 11:43:55
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Still busy Ostap !!!! Sad

Anyway I'm currently studying other things but I explained before the ideas !
In the end black is playing virtually 2 pieces down (Bf8 and Rh8).
I hope I will expose it more concretely soon!

A pity that other players don't enrich this analysis (maybe it becomes boring for many to see so many BDG threads!!).

KASPI
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #35 - 05/15/06 at 18:11:32
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A couple of months ago, kaspirateur wrote:

Quote:
in fact, after checking this week-end, 21 N*c5+ is winning for white.
As I'm supposed to be working at the moment I will post those analysis later.
The Q+N duo will coordinate to win the rook on h8 and in the end will remain Q+N (the other one on e2) against Q so 1 piece up in the endgame !!!

More details later.


Was there a follow up post that I missed?  Is 21.Nxc5+ winning?  Still busy?  Hate to get 'on topic' here, but...
  

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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #34 - 05/03/06 at 15:53:51
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photophore wrote on 05/03/06 at 10:37:15:
What about the line :
1 d4 Nf6
2 Bg5 Ne4
3 h4 c5
4 d5 Qb6
5 Nd2 Nxg5
6 hxg5 Qxb2
7 e4 g6
8 Rab1 Qg7
and W has not enough compensation for the pawn


Hi Photophore!!!

This topic is about a specific line and this fantastic novelty by Chernyshov in the main line!

Your line is certainly interesting, probably covered in another thread but completely off topic!!

Cheers

KASPI
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #33 - 05/03/06 at 10:37:15
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What about the line :
1 d4 Nf6
2 Bg5 Ne4
3 h4 c5
4 d5 Qb6
5 Nd2 Nxg5
6 hxg5 Qxb2
7 e4 g6
8 Rab1 Qg7
and W has not enough compensation for the pawn
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #32 - 04/19/06 at 10:42:56
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MNb wrote on 04/18/06 at 10:24:41:
We will accept your apologies, if you comment on our analysis above and/or publish some of your blitz games here.  Wink



Well done Mnb !

I will publish also a follow-up of my analysis later when my job will allow me to breathe a little...
Thanks Mr Palliser and I will also be glad to see a few of your blitz games in this variation.

KASPI
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #31 - 04/18/06 at 10:24:41
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We will accept your apologies, if you comment on our analysis above and/or publish some of your blitz games here.  Wink
  

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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #30 - 04/17/06 at 11:02:45
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Sorry! Should have contributed more! For now I'm just enjoying playing this fascinating line in a few blitz games. It's certainly dangerous for Black and I don't think there's yet any consensus on the best response (refutation?!). We may find out though when somebody tries it against a 2...Ne4 and 3...c5 expert like Kotronias.
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #29 - 04/15/06 at 05:41:32
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Thanks for these two wins goes to Eric Prie for his inspiration.

(391) Markus Lammers (2531) - Equidistance (2405)
2nd PAL/CSS Freestlye Tournament - Main playchess.com #062594 (6), 19.03.2006
1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 e6 3.e4 h6 4.Bxf6 Qxf6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Nc3 Nd7 7.Qd2 a6 8.a4 c5 9.Be2 Be7 10.0–0 0–0 11.a5 Qg6 12.Qe3 cxd4 13.Nxd4 Qg5 14.Qxg5 hxg5 15.Rfd1 Nf6 16.Nf3 g4 17.Nd2 d5 18.Na4 dxe4 19.Nb6 Rb8 20.Ndc4 Rd8 21.Rxd8+ Bxd8 22.Rd1 Bc7 23.f3 gxf3 24.gxf3 Kf8 25.fxe4 Nxe4 26.Bf3 Nf6 27.b3 Ke7 28.Nxc8+ Rxc8 29.Bxb7 Rb8 30.Bc6 Rh8 31.Rd2 Rh5 32.Bb7 Bxa5 33.Rg2 g6 34.Bxa6 Bc7 35.Bb7 Rh3 36.Nd2 Bf4 37.Ne4 Nd5 38.Nf2 Rh5 39.Bxd5 Rxd5 40.Kf1 Rh5 41.h3 Bc7 42.c4 Bb6 43.Rh2 Ra5 44.Nd1 Ra1 45.Rd2 Rb1 46.Rd3 e5 47.Ke2 e4 48.Rg3 Bd4 49.Nc3 Rb2+ 50.Kd1 Bxc3 51.Rxc3 f5 52.Kc1 Rf2 53.c5 f4 54.b4 e3 55.Kd1 Rd2+ 56.Ke1 Rb2 57.Rc4 g5 58.h4 gxh4 59.Rxf4 h3 60.Rh4 h2 61.Rh7+ Ke6 Markus Lammers gibt auf 0–1


(1) Klosterfrau (2520) - Equidistance (2447)
CSS/Pal Freestyle Tourney Final (45+5) www.playchess.com (1), 08.04.2006
1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 e6 3.e4 h6 4.Bxf6 Qxf6 5.c3 d5 6.Nd2 c5 7.Ngf3 cxd4 8.exd5 exd5 9.Nxd4 Nc6 10.Bb5 a6 11.Ba4 b5 12.Nxc6 Qxc6 13.Bc2 Qe6+ 14.Kf1 Bc5 15.Nb3 Bb6 16.Qd3 Qf6 17.f3 Ra7 18.a4 bxa4 19.Nd4 a3 20.Rxa3 Re7 21.Ra1 g6 22.h4 h5 23.Ba4+ Kf8 24.Re1 Rxe1+ 25.Kxe1 Kg7 26.g3 Klosterfrau bietet Remis 26...Be6 27.Kd1 Rb8 28.Nxe6+ Qxe6 29.Kc2 Bf2 30.Bb3 Rb5 31.Ba4 Rc5 ' 32.Qd2 Be3 33.Qd3 d4 34.Bb3 Qb6 35.g4 Rb5 36.cxd4 Bxd4 37.Re1 Rc5+ 38.Kd1 Bc3 39.bxc3 Qxb3+ 40.Qc2 Qd5+ 41.Ke2 hxg4 42.Qe4 gxf3+ 43.Kf1 Qxe4 44.Rxe4 Rxc3 45.Ra4 Rc6 46.Kf2 Rf6 47.Ra1 Kf8 48.Ra2 Ke7 49.Ra3 Kd7 50.Ra5 Kc7 51.h5 gxh5 52.Rxh5 Kb6 53.Rh1 a5 54.Ra1 Kb5 55.Rb1+ Kc4 56.Ra1 Rf5 57.Rc1+ Kb3 58.Rb1+ Kc2 59.Ra1 Kb2 Klosterfrau gibt auf 0–1
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #28 - 03/31/06 at 18:30:15
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I have not seen a reliable antidote against
1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Ne4 3.Bf4 c5 4.f3 Qa5+ 5.c3 Nf6 6.d5 Qb6 7.e4 Qxb2 8.Nd2 Qxc3 9.Bc7
published anywhere. Has anyone else?

The posts above indicate that 9.-,Qe3+ 10.Ne2 d6 gives Black a lot of troubles after 11.Nc4 Qh6 12.Bxb8
(I am not that interested to work out all details after 21.Nxc5)

Grischuk (2724) and Alexandrov (2630) have lost with 9.-,g6 and 9.-,b6 respectively, against much lower rated opponents. These games can be found in the January update 2006 of the d-specials section.

There is also this suggestion in a previous post by gdog
Quote:
the gms recommend qe3+ne2 Na6, the idea is that qhites bishop is stuck on f1, if u play Na6 right away then i can play ne2 or bb5, but this is an interestinf idea  anyway,  worth trrying in a blitz game
Which GMs? Where was that published?
My own evaluation of this: White should avoid 11.Bf4? Nb4!! but 11.Nc4 Qh6 12.Bf4 g5 13.Be3 instead gives White plenty of compensation (at least in practical play).

My interest in this variation is from Black's point of view. Right now I'm hesitant to play the Black side of this.
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #27 - 03/31/06 at 09:13:51
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Sacapawn wrote on 03/15/06 at 18:46:28:
I did some checking of 21.Nxc5+ and it (probably) wins for White. There are many defenses available for Black to analyze, but I haven't found anything sufficient.

Since kaspirateur has promised more details later of his analyses I will not give mine now.


Hi !

As I have no time to post this analysis and I would like this fascinating thread to live (among all this BDG rubbish  Wink), I would be happy to see analysis of others (where is Mr Palliser who starts a thread and does not participate to the debate ? Sad).

For me, after 21 N*c5+, it's completely winning for white and it's easy to see that Black will be a piece down in many of the lines.

Maybe we should reroute the analysis in another direction (perhaps early alternatives forBlack in Chernyshov-Grishuk game).

Thx everybody !!

KASPI

  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #26 - 03/15/06 at 18:46:28
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I did some checking of 21.Nxc5+ and it (probably) wins for White. There are many defenses available for Black to analyze, but I haven't found anything sufficient.

Since kaspirateur has promised more details later of his analyses I will not give mine now.
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #25 - 03/10/06 at 02:28:48
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Could you give a sample line after 21.Nxc5 ? I don't see it and feel very dumb now.  Embarrassed
  

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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #24 - 03/09/06 at 15:55:13
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Hi every Tromp afficionado !!!

I have to much work to analyse properly on my own so I used lazyly Fritz 8 to check the analysis and it seems to be correct.

So, White can indeed play for the win in this line beacuse taking both rooks appears suicidal.

I would like to have the latest thoughts of all our preferred GMs and IMs( Prie, Martin, Palliser...).

It also seems that the line with 9... b6 10 Rc1 ! as played in Pavlovic-Alexandrov is  murderous.

Very promising indeed !!!!

SO ?????? Wink

KASPI
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #23 - 03/06/06 at 10:58:23
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MNb wrote on 03/02/06 at 02:42:43:
After the great 17.Bh3! Qxa1+ 18.Kf2 Rb7 19.Nxb7 Qxh1 20.Bxd7+ Kxd7 alas 21.Nxc5+ also is a draw. So 21.Na5 Ke8 22.Qc7 Qxh2+ 23.Ke2 Qh3 24.g4 Bxg4 25.fxg4 and here Black should play Qh1+ 26.Kd2 and only now f6 27.Qc8+ Kf7 28.Qe6+ Kg6 (Ke8 is similar to the variation of sacapawn; 29.Nb7 Qh6+ is critical) 29.Nb7 Qh6+ and I do not see, how White can avoid the queen checks.


Hi !

in fact, after checking this week-end, 21 N*c5+ is winning for white.
As I'm supposed to be working at the moment I will post those analysis later.
The Q+N duo will coordinate to win the rook on h8 and in the end will remain Q+N (the other one on e2) against Q so 1 piece up in the endgame !!!

More details later.

Thanks again

KASPI
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #22 - 03/04/06 at 20:52:00
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I rather like 14.Ng3 Bg7 15.Ne3 in this line. The bishop might go to c3 instead.
  

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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #21 - 03/04/06 at 11:18:53
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So, 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Ne4 3.Bf4 c5 4.f3 Qa5+ 5.c3 Nf6 6.d5 Qb6 7.e4 Qxb2 8.Nd2 Qxc3 9.Bc7 Qe3+ 10.Ne2 d6 11.Nc4 Qh6 12.Bxb8 seems to be good for a draw, but no more (which is more than most gambits can boost with, compare with another 2 pawn gambit under d-Pawn Specials section!).

However, white players will not be satisfied with that, so an alternative is 12.Rb1 with lots of compensation (perhaps even sufficient!) for the 2 pawns
e.g. 12.-,Na6 13.Ba5 g5 14.Bd2 Qg6 15.Qa4+ Nd7 16.Ng3 Bg7 17.Nf5 Bf6 18.Bd3



  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #20 - 03/02/06 at 02:42:43
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After the great 17.Bh3! Qxa1+ 18.Kf2 Rb7 19.Nxb7 Qxh1 20.Bxd7+ Kxd7 alas 21.Nxc5+ also is a draw. So 21.Na5 Ke8 22.Qc7 Qxh2+ 23.Ke2 Qh3 24.g4 Bxg4 25.fxg4 and here Black should play Qh1+ 26.Kd2 and only now f6 27.Qc8+ Kf7 28.Qe6+ Kg6 (Ke8 is similar to the variation of sacapawn; 29.Nb7 Qh6+ is critical) 29.Nb7 Qh6+ and I do not see, how White can avoid the queen checks.
  

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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #19 - 03/01/06 at 22:56:59
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Yes, Kaspiratuer, Black has the 18.-,Rb7 move!

White has a draw if he wants, but can maybe play for a win:

19.Nxb7 Qxh1 20.Bxd7+ Kxd7 21.Na5+ Ke8 22.Qc7
White is a rook down but will win the Bc8 if i'm not mistaken.
One continuation showing some possibilities is
22.-,Qxh2+ 23.Ke1 Qh3 24.g4 Bxg4 25.fxg4 f6 26.Qc8+ Kf7 27.Qe6+ Ke8 28.Nb7 Qh2 29.Qc8+ Kf7 30.Nd8+ Ke8 31.e5 dxe5 32.d6 exd6 33.Nc6+ Kf7 34.Qd7+ Kg6 35.Nd8 threatening mate in two
As I don't have any chess engine available right now I won't analyze this any further (even if I had I'm not sure I would...)

I don't find anything more than a draw after 15.Rb1 Rb7 16.Qa8 Rb8
White can avoid the repetition with 17.Qc6 but I don't see any advantage for White after 17.-,Bb7 18.Qc7 bxc4 19.Rxb7 Rd8
  
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kaspirateur(Guest)
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #18 - 03/01/06 at 20:42:27
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Hi everybody! these are the last news !!! Wink

I finally found time to analyse a little more this variation and it seems to lead to a draw!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe this is not completely forced but there are two lines which lead to a three move repetition:

After the seemingly fantastic move 17 Bh3 !! first it seems possible to take both rooks and surviving:

17... Q*a1+ 18 Kf2 Rb7 and 2 lines:

1) 19 N*b7 Q*h1 20 B*d7+ K*d7 (if 20... B*d7 ?? mate in 2)21 Qb6 Q*h2+ 22 Ke3 Qh6+ 23 Nf4 B*b7
    24 Q*b7+ Kd8 25 Qb8+ Kd7 with a draw

2) 19 B*d7+ R*d7 20 Qa8 Q*h1 21 Q*c8+ Rd8 22 Qc6+ Rd7 22 Qc8 also with a draw

Larsen once said that any long line is innacurate but this seems quite forced to me.

Maybe White should pay more attention to 15 Rb1 !? (instead of 15 Na5) to generate winning chances but this is really unclear.

Gentlemen ?????(especially Mister Palliser who had the great idea to start this dicussion and whom I enjoy reading, please come back !!!) Wink

KASPI
  
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kaspirateur(Guest)
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #17 - 02/27/06 at 10:04:07
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Hi !

Sacapawn's idea to sacrifice both rooks with 17... Bh3 !! has been played against yours truly in blitz last Friday !!

Defending this position was a real nightmare !!! Anyway, it was only a blitz game !

Thanks everybody for your interest !

KASPI
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #16 - 02/25/06 at 08:01:16
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Quote:
9...Qe3+ 10.Ne2 d6 11.Nc4 Qh6 12.Bxb8 (12.Rb1 certainly is worth looking at)Rxb8 13.Qa4+ Nd7 (b5 14.Qxa7 Nd7 is only a transposition) 14.Qxa7 b5 15.Na5 (15.Rb1!?) Qh4+ 16.g3 Qf6 17.Kf2 and now e6 must be critical, as Qxa1 18.Bh3! is nasty. So e6 18.Rd1 Be7 and now what? The attractive 19.e5 is parried by the cool Nxe5 20.Qxb8 Qxf3+ 21.Ke1 o-o! So White must try 19.Nc6 Rb7 20.Qa5.


17.Bh3!! inviting Black to take two rooks (but losing on the spot) is an improvement.

For example 17.-,e6 18.0-0 Be7 19.Nf4 and White should be winning.
  
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kaspirateur(Guest)
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #15 - 02/22/06 at 10:26:31
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60+ moves is due to Grishuk's tough resistance, unwillingness to resign and not so accurate moves by Cernyshov to finish his poor partner off around the 30th move !!!

9...g6 ?! is probably not critical to test the validity of white's idea.

Take a look at 9...d6 or maybe 9... Qe3+ 10 Ne2 d6

There is plenty of play for white but we have to check  Mnb's line which seems to keep black in fine shape.

Cheers

KASPI
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #14 - 02/21/06 at 20:40:21
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Geof_Strayer wrote on 05/18/05 at 23:01:37:
I think you are probably thinking of the game Chernysov(2531)-Grischuk(2724), Russian Club Ch.'s, Dagomys, 2005.

A nice win for White a very interesting TN in the 7.e4!? line.  It was analyzed in Chess Today, Issue No. 1631, by the way, if you are a subscriber or can get your hands on a copy.

Moves were as follows, with some limited paraphrasing of IM Barsky's comments:

1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Ne4 3.f3 Qa5+ 5.c3 Nf6 6.d5 Qb6 7.e4!? Qxb2 8.Nd2 Qxc3 9.Bc7! TN (Black's Q is now somewhat inconvenienced as it can no longer retreat via a5) g6 10.Rc1 Qe3+ 11.Ne2 Na6 12.Nc4 Qh6 13.Bf4 Qg7 14.Qa4! (preventing ...d6 and further development by Black) g5 15.Be5 g4 16.f4 Qg6 17.Ng3 Rg8 18.Ne3 Nb4 (Black decides to sacrifice a piece to complete development) 19.a3 Nc6 20.dxc6 dxc6 21.Be2 Nd7 22.0-0 (Fritz likes 22.Bc7!? once again) Nxe5 23.fxe5 Bh6 24.Qb3 Be6 25.Qc3 b6 26.Rcd1 Bxe3+ 27.Qxe3 Qg5 28.Qc3! (avoiding Q exchange due to Black's vulnerable K position) Rd8 29.Nf5 h5 30.a4 (30.Bc4!? Rg6 31.Rxd8+ Kxd8 32.Rd1+ Kc7 33.Qd3 +- may be stronger) h4 31.a5 Rxd1 32.Rxd1 Bxf5 33.Qd3! Kf8 34.exf5 Qf4 35.Qd8+ Kg7 36.Qxe7 Qxf5 37.Qxh4 Re8 38.Rf1 Qxe5 39.Qxg4+ Kf8 40.Bc4 Re7 (despite a tough defense by Black, he is still lost) 41.Rf4! Qe1+ 42.Bf1 Qe5 43.g3 Re6 44.Qh4 b5 45.Qd8+ Kg7 46.Qd7 Rf6 47.Rg4+ Kh6 48.Qd2+ Kh7 49.Bd3+ Kh8 50.Re4 Qd5 51.Qc3! (the pin is decisive) Qd6 52.Rf4 Kg7 53.Kf2 c4 54.Be4 c5 55.Ke3 Qd4+ 56.Qxd4 cxd4+ 57.Kxd4 Ra6 58.Bd5 f6 59.Rg4+ Kh8 60.Kc5 Rxa5 61.Kb4 Ra1 62.Kxb5 c3 63.Rc4 Rc1 64.Kb4 Rc2 65.h4 a5+ 66.Kb3 1-0



hardly a CRUSH if the game goes to 60+ moves
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #13 - 02/21/06 at 02:45:26
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9...Qe3+ 10.Ne2 d6 11.Nc4 Qh6 12.Bxb8 (12.Rb1 certainly is worth looking at)Rxb8 13.Qa4+ Nd7 (b5 14.Qxa7 Nd7 is only a transposition) 14.Qxa7 b5 15.Na5 (15.Rb1!?) Qh4+ 16.g3 Qf6 17.Kf2 and now e6 must be critical, as Qxa1 18.Bh3! is nasty. So e6 18.Rd1 Be7 and now what? The attractive 19.e5 is parried by the cool Nxe5 20.Qxb8 Qxf3+ 21.Ke1 o-o! So White must try 19.Nc6 Rb7 20.Qa5.
  

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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #12 - 02/20/06 at 07:22:29
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Hi chess lovers !

No news since the recovery of this forum !!!!

So I refresh this topic with the sempiternal question:what is really happening in this variation ?

Is black busted or is he simply 2 pawns up in this fascinating Chernyshov gambit ?

Any ideas ? After playing some quick games with black, I find his position quite hard to defend despite my last approximate analysis (see this topic since it's beginning).

This line is really worth a look !!!! Wink

Thanks in advance.

KASPI
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #11 - 11/17/05 at 07:37:01
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After checking a little I wonder if black can play 14...b5 !? after Qa4+.

It's also playable after 15 Q*a7 b5 !?

Also to take into account is the possibility to give a check on h4 with th queen followed by Qf6 attacking the rook on a1!

All in all white's perspectives remain obscure for the 2 pawns investment.

Maybe there is another way with 11 Rb1 ?

I prefer d6 for black instead of the other move suggested (Na6) because in thisz casewhite can retain some sort of initiative by attacking the queen and threatening e5 at some point.

Ideas ????

Please refute these variations, it would be a pity to annihilate such a wonderful idea (Bc7!!).
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #10 - 11/16/05 at 12:44:49
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Simple and effective variation !
I don't have much time to analyse it properly yet but it seems to be quite forced.
Maybe Kna6 is better than d6 but I doubt it at first sight.
E5 is a strong threat in many lines.
I'm coming back after checking!

Thank you for showing interest in this facsinating new line!!  Grin



Quote:
9.Bc7! is really a brilliant move.

As for kaspirarateur's suggestion:
9.-,Qe3+ 10.Ne2 d6
White can continue
11.Nc4 Qh6 12.Bxb8! Rxb8 13.Qa4+ Nd7 14.Qxa7 with the threat of Nb6. Looks quite troublesome for Black.

  
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gdog
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #9 - 11/15/05 at 16:08:37
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the gms recommend qe3+ne2 Na6, the idea is that qhites bishop is stuck on f1, if u play Na6 right away then i can play ne2 or bb5, but this is an interestinf idea  anyway,  worth trrying in a blitz game
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #8 - 11/11/05 at 02:50:01
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9.Bc7! is really a brilliant move.

As for kaspirarateur's suggestion:
9.-,Qe3+ 10.Ne2 d6
White can continue
11.Nc4 Qh6 12.Bxb8! Rxb8 13.Qa4+ Nd7 14.Qxa7 with the threat of Nb6. Looks quite troublesome for Black.
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #7 - 11/09/05 at 10:56:08
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Hi!

also glad that my pseudo is well received/

I also think that Bc7 !! is a real great idea but unfortunately it seems to me that there is not enough compensation in the lne I mentioned earlier.

I would be glad if anybody finds a way to refute my idea.

I wish there is a way but I also like objective views !

Thanks for attention
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #6 - 11/08/05 at 18:28:17
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Quote:
Second place:  Zarvox (conjures an image of some awesomely knowledgeable/powerful alien entity).
Thanks! Glad you like the name. Smiley One time someone said that my voice sounds like an alien's; I was quite surprised by that, and I'm still not sure if it was a compliment or an insult!

Back on topic, I haven't analyzed this game in detail, but 9.Bc7!! is startling and beautiful.
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #5 - 11/07/05 at 18:42:11
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I just had to mention that "kaspirateur" (a blend of a retired chess player's name with the French word for vacuum cleaner) is my favorite user name on Chess Publishing so far.

Second place:  Zarvox (conjures an image of some awesomely knowledgeable/powerful alien entity).

As you were.    Grin
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #4 - 11/07/05 at 16:52:03
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Hi!

I can't find these comments.
It's a pity because this variation is really fascinating and I can't find an improvement for white after the following moves:9... Qe3+ 10 Ne2 d6 !
I know that the black queen will find herself en h6 but is it so critical with 2 pawns up?

Any analysis will be welcome!!

cheers

Kaspirateur
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #3 - 05/19/05 at 16:05:30
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I just noticed that IM Barsky's annotations of the Chernysov-Grischuk game are available for free (in Russian) online at

http://www.e3e5.com/petersburg/competitions/article.html?284

(I recently discovered the e3e5 site and it's English mirror site.  There is some great stuff there.)


     
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #2 - 05/19/05 at 05:39:27
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Geoff - superb; many thanks for this - that's the game.
  
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Re: recent Trompowsky crush
Reply #1 - 05/18/05 at 23:01:37
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I think you are probably thinking of the game Chernysov(2531)-Grischuk(2724), Russian Club Ch.'s, Dagomys, 2005.

A nice win for White a very interesting TN in the 7.e4!? line.  It was analyzed in Chess Today, Issue No. 1631, by the way, if you are a subscriber or can get your hands on a copy.

Moves were as follows, with some limited paraphrasing of IM Barsky's comments:

1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Ne4 3.f3 Qa5+ 5.c3 Nf6 6.d5 Qb6 7.e4!? Qxb2 8.Nd2 Qxc3 9.Bc7! TN (Black's Q is now somewhat inconvenienced as it can no longer retreat via a5) g6 10.Rc1 Qe3+ 11.Ne2 Na6 12.Nc4 Qh6 13.Bf4 Qg7 14.Qa4! (preventing ...d6 and further development by Black) g5 15.Be5 g4 16.f4 Qg6 17.Ng3 Rg8 18.Ne3 Nb4 (Black decides to sacrifice a piece to complete development) 19.a3 Nc6 20.dxc6 dxc6 21.Be2 Nd7 22.0-0 (Fritz likes 22.Bc7!? once again) Nxe5 23.fxe5 Bh6 24.Qb3 Be6 25.Qc3 b6 26.Rcd1 Bxe3+ 27.Qxe3 Qg5 28.Qc3! (avoiding Q exchange due to Black's vulnerable K position) Rd8 29.Nf5 h5 30.a4 (30.Bc4!? Rg6 31.Rxd8+ Kxd8 32.Rd1+ Kc7 33.Qd3 +- may be stronger) h4 31.a5 Rxd1 32.Rxd1 Bxf5 33.Qd3! Kf8 34.exf5 Qf4 35.Qd8+ Kg7 36.Qxe7 Qxf5 37.Qxh4 Re8 38.Rf1 Qxe5 39.Qxg4+ Kf8 40.Bc4 Re7 (despite a tough defense by Black, he is still lost) 41.Rf4! Qe1+ 42.Bf1 Qe5 43.g3 Re6 44.Qh4 b5 45.Qd8+ Kg7 46.Qd7 Rf6 47.Rg4+ Kh6 48.Qd2+ Kh7 49.Bd3+ Kh8 50.Re4 Qd5 51.Qc3! (the pin is decisive) Qd6 52.Rf4 Kg7 53.Kf2 c4 54.Be4 c5 55.Ke3 Qd4+ 56.Qxd4 cxd4+ 57.Kxd4 Ra6 58.Bd5 f6 59.Rg4+ Kh8 60.Kc5 Rxa5 61.Kb4 Ra1 62.Kxb5 c3 63.Rc4 Rc1 64.Kb4 Rc2 65.h4 a5+ 66.Kb3 1-0

  
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recent Trompowsky crush
05/18/05 at 16:33:17
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Can anyone please help me to find a recent Tromp win which I've been told was pretty stunning, but I can't find it! It was apparently played in late April (probably the Russian Team Ch.) and featured a killer Bc7 trapping the black queen. I think in the line 2 Bg5 Ne4 3 Bf4 c5 4 f3 Qa5+ 5 c3 Nf6 6 d5 Qb7 7 e4!? . Has anyone seen this please?
  
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