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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Grivas Sicilian (Read 34109 times)
BakerStreetBishop
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Re: Grivas Sicilian
Reply #33 - 12/09/14 at 20:10:28
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After 6...bxc6, White can try either 6.Bc4 or 6.Bd4. I think that White has some compensation for the pawn, but wheter it is enough is another question.

Still, this line is better IMHO than accepting the rook. I have done some analysis of this line and it seems that instead of the suggested and greedy 9.Nxa7, I think that 9.Ne5 leads to an unbalanced position in which I would slightly prefer White.

Example line: 9.Ne5 (threatening Bc4) Qd6 10.Nb5 Qb8 11.Nxf7 Kxf7 12.Qh5+ g6 13.Qf3+ Ke8 14.Bxh8 White is down a small amount of material (pawn) but has a lead in development and coordination. I have more analysis at my blog (Bishop's Blog at Baker Street on Chess.com)
  
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zoo
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Re: Grivas Sicilian
Reply #32 - 01/05/13 at 21:30:04
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Interesting. In fact 9.c3 looks forced, as after 8.Nc3 e5 White will be happy to escape with just a pawn down.

To sum up : 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cd 4. Nd4 Qb6 5.Be3 Qxb2 6.Nxc6 dxc6! (Grivas. 6...bxc6 with Nf6,g6,Bg7 also looks possible, but 6...Qxa1 is risky after 7.Bd4 (7.Bc4 dxc6!) Qxa2 8.Nc3 Qe6  9.Nxa7) 7.Bd4 Qb4 8.c3 (8.Nc3 e5!) 9.Qa5 Nd2 with some compensation.

Can someone show a good follow-up for White after  6..bxc6 ? 
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: Grivas Sicilian
Reply #31 - 01/05/13 at 02:41:45
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I agree w/ Zoo.  I'd rather be Black and have the pawn.  Just simple development seems to suffice.  ..e6, ..Nf6, ..Be7, ..0-0. 

In his CBM surveys, Grivas recommends meeting 5.Be3 with Qxb2 6.Nxc6 dxc6! (his exclam). He gives 7.Bd4 Qb4 8.Nc3 Nf6 9.Rb1 Qa5 10.e5 Nd5 11.Bc4 e6 -/+ Heuer-Gusev, Novgorod 1961.  But perhaps 8.c3 Qa5 9.Nd2 keeps things level.   

Grivas looks at 6..Qxa1, giving 7.Bd4 Qxa2 8.Nc3 Qe6  9.Nxa7 Nf6 10.Nab5 as best play.  After 10.Nab5, he indicates that White has comp.  That may be an understatement; I think I'd rather be White in that one.  Grivas does not look at 7.Bc4.
  
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zoo
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Re: Grivas Sicilian
Reply #30 - 01/03/13 at 14:20:13
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Black can stay compact and perhaps try the Bb5 sicilian setup with f6,g6,Nh6-f7,Bg7. Slow and cramped, but White has no immediate threats.
Maybe Grivas or others have commented on this line ? 
  
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Re: Grivas Sicilian
Reply #29 - 01/03/13 at 07:06:26
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Quote:
In which line ? I just thought of 10.Bxa1 Rxd1 11.Kxd1 Bc8 where White's compensation is not obvious


after 11.Kxd1:

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White has compensation: - enough / - not enough / - more than enough

For sure you can count on "not enough"/"enough" playing this position with an engine, but somehow I think in a practical game it is "more than enough" and Black has to be careful not to run into troubles - but I may be wrong Wink
  
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zoo
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Re: Grivas Sicilian
Reply #28 - 01/02/13 at 23:11:59
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In which line ? I just thought of 10.Bxa1 Rxd1 11.Kxd1 Bc8 where White's compensation is not obvious
  
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Matemax
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Re: Grivas Sicilian
Reply #27 - 01/02/13 at 20:14:03
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you might be able to hold this with an engine, but in a real game, White's compensation for the pawn looks terrific Roll Eyes
  
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zoo
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Re: Grivas Sicilian
Reply #26 - 01/02/13 at 18:35:10
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(un)fortunately, Black seems to escape with 7..dxc6 8.Bd4 Bg4 9.f3 Rd8
  
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Re: Grivas Sicilian
Reply #25 - 01/02/13 at 17:27:50
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I recently tried the Grivas with Black and was faced with this:

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Qb6 5.Be3 Qxb2 (this is probably "forced" if you don't want to get an inferior position right away) 6.Nxc6 Qxa1 7.Bc4!?

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Of course you don't have to take the rook on move 6 (the alternative is to take the knight) but on the first glance it's not obvious how White will continue as 7.Bd4 Qxa2 looks like not much for him. But if this line is not good for Black then the whole Grivas-idea looks in my view simply rubish...

  
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ghenghisclown
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Re: Grivas Sicilian
Reply #24 - 04/09/12 at 17:50:14
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PANFR wrote on 04/09/12 at 09:15:55:
ghenghisclown wrote on 04/07/12 at 21:13:05:
(what else?)


Stratos himself plays here mostly 3...e5.


Well the idea was to remain in the general structure or transpose into a Grivas. If this is the best move (e5) then White can avoid it?
  

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PANFR
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Re: Grivas Sicilian
Reply #23 - 04/09/12 at 09:15:55
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ghenghisclown wrote on 04/07/12 at 21:13:05:
(what else?)


Stratos himself plays here mostly 3...e5.
  
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ghenghisclown
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Re: Grivas Sicilian
Reply #22 - 04/07/12 at 21:13:05
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Isn't there a way to avoid the Grivas altogether? I've been experimenting with the Sicilian in Blitz lately and found that a couple people play 3.Nc3 (of course avoiding the Svesh might be another reason) and now I wonder:

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 e6 (what else?) 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Qb6 can be met here with 6.Ndb5 which isn't exactly avoid the Grivas,  but it is different....

Well, it's been tried by Svidler and others.
  

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ddt
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Re: Grivas Sicilian
Reply #21 - 09/24/11 at 16:27:13
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I played Grivas Sicilian a couple of times in the past, mostly as a surprise weapon against lower-ranked opponents. For sure it is a risky opening, but I think it is quite playable and usually leads to an all-out battle.

I have analyzed some of the games that I played in the tournaments with this line. If anyone is interested, you can check it out here - http://www.4shared.com/file/my1erULy/Terekhov-on-Grivas-B33.html
  
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Re: Grivas Sicilian
Reply #20 - 09/13/11 at 21:53:23
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I think it would be a good surprise variation in a tournament situation if one must win, and your main response to 1. e4 is the Najdorf. If I remember correctly, both Dominguez and Polgar played the Grivas Sicilian against each other in their semifinal match. They both seemed to do well with it. If the variation is succeeding at such a high level, it should be reasonable at ~2200 level as well.
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Grivas Sicilian
Reply #19 - 09/13/11 at 21:28:30
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fling wrote:
Quote:
On the other hand, Judith Polgar (well, not even only her) seem to be pretty happy with the Grivas in critical situations. This suggests to me that it is a rather complex issue, and not something that can be solved just by reasoning without looking at really concrete lines.


Agreed, fling. About fifteen years ago I did some fairly serious analysis of the Grivas line with a friend. We found some promising lines for White, but nothing definitive.  Unfortunately, I've lost most of my analysis. But I suspect that good lines could easily be created in a couple of hours with the aid of your favorite silicon beastie if all you're looking for is a weapon against the weekend warrior.

Against someone like Polgar, or in a correspondence game, I'm not so sure that White can prove the advantage anymore. Having said that, I play the Taimanov as Black in correspondence games occasionally. I am not at all likely to try 4...Qb6 as Black any time soon.
  
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