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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Is the Marshall still good? (Read 11346 times)
Keano
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Re: Is the Marshall still good?
Reply #22 - 11/16/06 at 15:04:24
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I´d call it an anti-Marshall because White does not accept the pawn, but I stand to be corrected.

As for Karpovs comments I agree the man has a talent for summing up in one sentence what another player would have to publish a page of analysis to conclude. It is a tragedy for chess that Karpov never took writing books seriously as he potentially could create some outstanding works.
  
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Willempie
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Re: Is the Marshall still good?
Reply #21 - 11/16/06 at 15:02:34
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IMJohnCox wrote on 11/16/06 at 14:58:11:
Is it an anti-Marshall? I’d have thought it was a bit late for “anti”-Marshalls after 8…d5.

According to Timman Botvinnik believed this was the way White ought to reply to the Marshall.

Moro seems to have got something, although I suppose Shirov must still have good chances to draw.

Micawber – agreed about Karpov’s comments. I love his ‘I don’t have a computer but if I did it would show that …Kh7 is best’ (instead of Aronian’s …Kf5). Wonder if that’s true?

It is an anti-Marshall at least according to Shaw.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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IMJohnCox
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Re: Is the Marshall still good?
Reply #20 - 11/16/06 at 14:58:11
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Is it an anti-Marshall? I’d have thought it was a bit late for “anti”-Marshalls after 8…d5.

According to Timman Botvinnik believed this was the way White ought to reply to the Marshall.

Moro seems to have got something, although I suppose Shirov must still have good chances to draw.

Micawber – agreed about Karpov’s comments. I love his ‘I don’t have a computer but if I did it would show that …Kh7 is best’ (instead of Aronian’s …Kf5). Wonder if that’s true?
  
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Keano
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Re: Is the Marshall still good?
Reply #19 - 11/16/06 at 14:43:05
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Interesting - technically that is another type of "anti-Marshall" (9.d4) that Shirov played a couple of times himself, so you´d think he´d know what to do against it. Anand prefers 9...exd4 rather than 9....dxe4
  
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IMJohnCox
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Re: Is the Marshall still good?
Reply #18 - 11/16/06 at 14:14:23
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Certainly anyone who wasn’t armed with a very specific idea. But one good reason might be that the anti-Marshall lines really don’t seem to be doing the business, I suppose.

Maybe Moro is opening a new page today, though – this ending (move 19) looks to me to be placing Black under severe pressure at the moment.
  
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Klick
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Re: Is the Marshall still good?
Reply #17 - 11/13/06 at 11:23:58
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I don't understand why anyone would want to allow the Marshall with white at all..
  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
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Keano
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Re: Is the Marshall still good?
Reply #16 - 11/13/06 at 11:20:05
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Well, Shirov must be sick of the sight of the Marshall now, he improved with Qc1 but still he got nowhere - he should have bailed out with a draw very early but instead insisted on pushing the boat out ( a bit too far!). The final zugzwang position is quite beautiful though!

So, GM Renet it looks like will be giving us all another Marshall update very soon  Wink

For now though, I am sticking with my anti-Marshall stuff  Cool It may not refute the Marshall, but at least it is a game of chess!
  
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micawber
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Re: Is the Marshall still good?
Reply #15 - 11/10/06 at 22:27:08
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@IM Cox:
A Joke? Undecided
Shirov-Aronian  0-1 (Black won this game)

Shirov-Arionian repeated Shirov-Leko up to move 22!
It was Shirov who deviated at move 23, but it was not a terrible innovation.
This was Karpov's comment on the position after move 25 (typo's included):

Karpov: here the Marshall counterattack will most likely result in a drow. Althouhg white has two pawns for the exchange, he will hardly rist going over to the endgame or being deprived of the advantage of having two Bishops. Therefore, the repetition of moves is the  most likely outcome. If the white king were more secure (Kg2) or would have "more air" (pawn at g4), white would gain considerable advantage after  27. Bc2 Bd3 28. Bd3 Qd3 29. Bf6.

Karpov's further comments on this game where quite revealing about his way of thinking (and better than the comments - probably by gost writers -  in his books. He indicated just where the pieces should be placed in the resulting endgame/late middlegame, and what formation black should establish on the kingside (f6/h5).

I just wondered about one thing:
did the Leko team analyse these positions before, during or after the match against Kramnik?
  
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IMJohnCox
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Re: Is the Marshall still good?
Reply #14 - 11/10/06 at 18:25:15
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Looks like it may have a litte life in it, then.

(Shirov-Aronian, today. Aronian ain't Leko, or maybe Leko had all this analysed 'to the end' as well....)
  
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Re: Is the Marshall still good?
Reply #13 - 11/09/06 at 12:13:53
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The following commentary comes from GM Yemelin at http:///www.e3e5.com/eng/:


Shirov,A (2720) - Leko,P (2741) C89
Tal Memorial Moscow RUS (3), 08.11.2006


1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 0-0 8.c3 d5 9.exd5 Nxd5 10.Nxe5 Nxe5 11.Rxe5 c6 12.d4 Bd6 13.Re1 Qh4 14.g3 Qh3 15.Re4 g5 16.Qf1 Qh5 17.Nd2 Bf5 18.f3 Nf6 19.a4 Nxe4 20.Nxe4

It would have definitely been... highly unexpected if this variation had taken Leko by surprise.

20...Qg6!

An important novelty that solves black`s opening problems  After20...Bxe4 21.fxe4 Kg7 Kurnosov-Azarov, Kusadasi 2006 black position was worse. Leko affirmed after the game his team analysed it all till the end. Please, read once again: "till the end"!

21.Nxd6 Qxd6 22.Bxg5 Rfe8 23.Re1

If  23.Qf2 Qg6 24.Bf4 Be6 25.Bc2 Bf5

23...Qg6  

Also possible 23...c5

24.Be7 Ra7

After 24...Be6 25.Rxe6! (25.Bxe6 Rxe7 26.Bb3 Rae8 27.Re4 Rxe4 28.fxe4 bxa4) 25...fxe6 26.Bd6 white has full compensation for two qualities and initiative.

25.Bc5 Raa8 26.Be7 Ra7 27.Bc5 1/2-1/2

White king is underprotected on the 2nd rank and draw is a fair result. I should also like to add that this is the 3rd game in a row Leko finishes with draw by moves repetition. Does the Guinness record book have more room for a new article?



  
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Keano
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Re: Is the Marshall still good?
Reply #12 - 11/09/06 at 09:10:40
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Yes - Leko actually played 20...Qg6(!) a move Renet suggested as an improvement - and now that I look at Renets analysis after 20...Qg6 there are 2 lines, one ends up equal, and one unclear. So it would seem that Renets "headline" of trouble for Marshall is a bit too tabloid-like, if we go by this.

Anyway, for now 20...Qg6 is where its at, and the Marshall is alive!
  
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micawber
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Re: Is the Marshall still good?
Reply #11 - 11/08/06 at 23:11:36
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Renet wondered if the Re4/Qf1-variation was the reason for Leko to give up the Marshall.
I think I already mentioned in an earlier post that when playing sharp variations like this, you have to switch occasionally in order not to be to predictable and be vunerable to home analyses of your opponents.

Today Leko "answered" Renet's question: He played the Marshall as black against Shirov. And guess what: the Re4/Qf1 variation was on the board, Leko apparently drawing without much difficulty.
So we may assume the Marshall is not dead yet  Smiley [Tal Memorial round 3]
  
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IMJohnCox
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Re: Is the Marshall still good?
Reply #10 - 11/08/06 at 18:03:33
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http://www.kosteniuk.com/

"Alexandra is having a hard time in the very strong rapid invitational in Cap d'Agde (France), after missing twice winning moves against Negi in an otherwise very nice game."

Poor lambkin - still, maybe the Marshall will survive this game?

  
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Keano
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Re: Is the Marshall still good?
Reply #9 - 11/03/06 at 13:15:58
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Recent update for followers of the Renet analysis - this was a rapid game, but interesting nonetheless....Kosteniuk did not play any more Marshall attacks in the event after this game....

[Event "GpA"]
[Site "Cap d'Agde FRA"]
[Date "2006.10.27"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Negi,P"]
[Black "Kosteniuk,A"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2538"]
[BlackElo "2534"]
[EventDate "2006.10.27"]
[ECO "C89"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 O-O 8.
c3 d5 9. exd5 Nxd5 10. Nxe5 Nxe5 11. Rxe5 c6 12. d4 Bd6 13. Re1 Qh4 14. g3
Qh3 15. Re4 g5 16. Qf1 Qh5 17. Nd2 f5 18. Bd1 Qh6 19. Re1 f4 20. Ne4 Bc7
21. f3 Bh3 22. Qf2 g4 23. fxg4 Qg6 24. Qc2 Rae8 25. Bd2 Ne3 26. Bxe3 fxe3
27. Nc5 Qh6 28. Ne4 Qg6 29. Nc5 Qg5 30. Qd3 Rf2 31. Bc2 Re7 32. Ne4 Rg2+
33. Kh1 Qg6 34. Rxe3 Kg7 35. Rae1 Rf7 36. Ng5 Rxc2 37. Qxg6+ hxg6 38. Nxf7
Kxf7 39. Re7+ Kf6 40. Rxc7 Bg2+ 41. Kg1 Bd5 42. h4 Rg2+ 43. Kf1 Rxg3 44.
g5+ Kf5 45. Kf2 Rg2+ 46. Ke3 Rxb2 47. Rg1 1-0
  
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Re: Is the Marshall still good?
Reply #8 - 11/01/06 at 14:41:36
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Actually, having GM Lalic wrote a book on the Marshall was calling for a disaster in my opinion.
He doesn't play 1.e4 and has never played the Marshall, what good can you expect in that situation ?

Back on the topic, I doubt that the Marshall will ever be refuted but, even if I love to play it, I must admit that some variations are more "practical" to play with white, you only need to know some theory and when you should accept that the game will end in a draw when black has to know a lot of theory and has to play knowing that he'll probably get no more than a draw.

The Quigley line mentionned earlier simply force black to choose an alternative path to the main line (with Re6 and Rfe8). By the way, it was also missed by mr Nunn & cie in NCO.
  
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