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Normal Topic Forcing White to Accept the Exchange Sac? (Read 2724 times)
eric_moskow
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Re: Forcing White to Accept the Exchange Sac?
Reply #5 - 06/27/05 at 08:02:50
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Usually a pratical way to play, without a board (seeing patients this moment will retire to play shortly)If qb8 can force this line it could be a good weapon, will check tonight mikhail any ideas???
  
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OstapBender
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Re: Forcing White to Accept the Exchange Sac?
Reply #4 - 06/27/05 at 07:38:49
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Thank you madhacker,

So it looks like Qa5 is a key resource for White.  Although this gives Black the e3 square (e.g., ...Ne3) I don't see any way to make use of this.  I guess Qa5 might render the 14...Qb8 idea ineffective.

Has 14...Qb8 15.Bxf8 Qxf8 16.Qa5 or 14...Qb8 15.Bxf8 Qxf8 16.Kb1 Rb8 17.Qa5 occurred in any games? (I couldn't find any examples.)

Lost highway and madhacker, your comments/analysis have been very helpful.  The potential and, especially, the limitations of 14...Qb8 idea are becoming apparent.
  

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madhacker
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Re: Forcing White to Accept the Exchange Sac?
Reply #3 - 06/27/05 at 03:52:55
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Golubev mentions this in "Experts vs. the Sicilian" - 16. Qa5! is indeed the way to deal with this line. It gives the knight the option of going to c5 when it's kicked with ...f5, and it also prevents the queen from coming down to b4, thus giving White time to play Bc4-b3 (oh, and as you say, it deals with the threat of ...Bh6).
  
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Re: Forcing White to Accept the Exchange Sac?
Reply #2 - 06/27/05 at 01:16:37
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Thank you lost highway,

These are some very pretty lines and - wow - that was fast.

The 17.Bc4? f5! line looks convincing.  Although White's material situation (2R vs. 3 minor pieces) doesn't look bad, Black's position at the end looks pretty overwhelming.

After 17.Qa5 f5 White has an extra option with the knight in 18.Nc5 instead of 18.Ng5.  On c5 the knight is not attacked when the queen jumps onto the long diagonal with ...Qf6 so the rook sacrifice 18...Rxb2+ doesn't seem to work in this case.

Another thought is that the queen can go to a5 a move earlier since this also averts the ...Bh6 pin (i.e., 16.Qa5 instead of 16.Kb1.  I'd be surprised if White can really get away with 17.b3, but who knows?  I will take a closer look at this.

Thanks again for the great input.
  

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lost highway
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Re: Forcing White to Accept the Exchange Sac?
Reply #1 - 06/26/05 at 20:10:20
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This looks nice for black in the line you gave if white is tempted to play 17.Bc4?  Then, 17...f5! 18.Ng5 e4 19.Bb3 Qf6 20.c3 Rxb3! 21.ab3 e3! looks like a win for black.  But, if white sees that coming and plays 17.Qa5 instead, he still gets hammered with something like 17...f5 18.Ng5 Rxb2+! 19.Kxb2 e4+ 20.Kb3 Qf6 21.c3 Qxg5.  Pretty good stuff.  17.b3 looks crazy, but it may be white's best defense.  Black can try using 17...a5 with the idea of a4 as a can opener to bust open white's king position, but white casually ignores that with 18.g4 a4 19.g5.  For example, 19...Qa3 20.Qc1, and white will soon play Bc4 with advantage.  This is why I prefer simplicty when I have 12.Bd4 played against me.  I just trade off with 12...Bxd4 13.Qxd4 Qb6.  This works well, and white usually loses.
  
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Forcing White to Accept the Exchange Sac?
06/26/05 at 18:47:20
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Referring to the Yugoslav line with 9.0-0-0 d5 10.exd5 Nxd5 11.Nxc6 bxc6 12.Bd4 e5 13.Bc5 Be6 14.Ne4:  Here I was wondering whether 14...Qb8 is playable.  Black is now ready to play 15...Rd8 so it seems that White is almost forced to capture on f8 (at least if he is playing for a win).

Although this loses a tempo compared to lines where White plays Bxf8 without Black having moved his queen, those lines are considered to be bad for White (judging from praxis).

After 14...Qb8 15.Bxf8 Qxf8 there could follow 16.Kb1 (parrying ...Bh6) when 16...Rb8 seems to give Black pretty good play for the sacrificed exchange.

I'm new to this section and appologize if I'm repeating a question which has already been discussed.  Also, if this line is already considered in a book I'm grateful for suggestions where to look.

Thanks.
  

"If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates."  -Jay Leno
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