Latest Updates:
Poll
Poll Question: What would you play after : 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3
bars   pie

4... exf3 5.Nxf3 e6 (Euwe)    
  7 (17.1%)
4... exf3 5.Nxf3 g6 (Bogo)    
  3 (7.3%)
4... exf3 5.Nxf3 c6 (Ziegler)    
  9 (22.0%)
4... exf3 5.Nxf3 Bf5 (Gunderam)    
  4 (9.8%)
4... exf3 5.Nxf3 Bg4 (Teichmann)    
  5 (12.2%)
4... Bf5 (Vienna)    
  0 (0.0%)
4... e3 (refused)    
  0 (0.0%)
4... c6 (O'Kelly)    
  7 (17.1%)
4... c5 5.d5 (Albin on the white side)    
  0 (0.0%)
You'd rather play 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 e5!?    
  6 (14.6%)




Total votes: 41
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) What is your fav. black way of play against BDG (Read 11004 times)
tafl
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 380
Location: Norway
Joined: 05/27/05
Gender: Male
Re: What is your fav. black way of play against BD
Reply #23 - 08/02/05 at 06:06:33
Post Tools
Quote:
But sorry to deceive you tafl  but 5..a6 has a name: the Gedult defense


That's a shame. I was hoping to have my name immortalized in BDG manuals together with the likes of Euwe and Zilbermints.
  

A computer once beat me at chess but it was no match for me at kick boxing - Emo Philips
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ArKheiN
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 728
Location: Belgium
Joined: 03/30/05
Re: What is your fav. black way of play against BD
Reply #22 - 08/02/05 at 05:08:27
Post Tools
You are right tafl, 5..a6 is not bad for the reasons you give ,a flexible and still useful in somes lines, for examples against Bc4. Somes guys did the error to play 6.Bc4 but that's bad, 6.Bd3 should be the main move, and if White devellops logically, and doesn't fall in the trap to play too agressive, but have a good use of Black's drawback of a6: even if they will play b5-Bb7, it's a little loss of tempo early on the game against a gambit. But I repeat : I was myself looking at a6 for Black some months ago with a good opinion on it, because it's still an underrated defense and quite rare, but not bad at all. But sorry to deceive you tafl Cheesy but 5..a6 has a name : the Gedult defense :p

Just to add somes ideas: 6.Bd3 is not the only move (Ne5; Bg5 have been played; Bc4 too but I don't like it at all) and here If I was Black, maybe I would play 6..g6 with the idea to play the Bogoljubob (other choices are also good, like Bg4 for example, or Nc6 where Bb5 isn't available this time.) where the bishop is better on c4 than d3, d4-pawn is more a target here, that compense the loss of tempo a6 in the bogoljubov here.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tafl
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 380
Location: Norway
Joined: 05/27/05
Gender: Male
Re: What is your fav. black way of play against BD
Reply #21 - 08/02/05 at 01:17:33
Post Tools
I meet quite a few BDGs in blitz at ICC whenever I drop below 2200 or so. I like 5...a6, mainly because many Whites tend to quickly self-destruct in rage. In matches it tends to go something like 5...a6 6.Bd3 (6.Bc4 e6 =+) 6...Nc6 7.Be3 Bg4 8.h3 Bh5 9.0-0 e6 after a few games, and I am quite happy with my extra pawn.

Can I have 5...a6 named after me please?  Grin 

  

A computer once beat me at chess but it was no match for me at kick boxing - Emo Philips
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Flanker
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 12
Location: Charlotte
Joined: 04/14/03
Re: What is your fav. black way of play against BD
Reply #20 - 08/02/05 at 00:27:46
Post Tools
One person early in the list of replies mentions "laziness".  I would play 2...e6 not due to laziness, but because you give me a French Defense, White or Black, and my rating is about 200 points higher.  My official rating is 1989, but it's more like 2200 after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 as either color, and 1850-1900 otherwise.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lost highway
Senior Member
****
Offline


I may be crazy.

Posts: 471
Joined: 06/17/05
Gender: Male
Re: What is your fav. black way of play against BD
Reply #19 - 08/01/05 at 12:45:28
Post Tools
None of the above.  I play 5...Nc6, and I've never lost with that move.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ArKheiN
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 728
Location: Belgium
Joined: 03/30/05
Re: What is your fav. black way of play against BD
Reply #18 - 08/01/05 at 11:41:31
Post Tools
But the BDG expert on CC: Peter Leisebein plays a3 with good results after having tryed the Zilbermints gambit and having analysed it as -/+ for Black. But who knows, maybe we can improve his analysis on the Zilbermints gambit to have a playable game but it's not easy.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10757
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: What is your fav. black way of play against BD
Reply #17 - 08/01/05 at 10:14:53
Post Tools
With TopNotch I must say, that if White has to play 7...Nc6 8.a3 to stay in the game, that I grow suspicious - against the BDG.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ArKheiN
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 728
Location: Belgium
Joined: 03/30/05
Re: What is your fav. black way of play against BD
Reply #16 - 08/01/05 at 09:28:24
Post Tools
Ok, if Black has equalized in the Leumberger Rasmussen attack : 4..Bb4 afther the best play by Black, it doesnt mean that White are worse, it mean they have equal chance also, right?If White have equal chance, I dont think it's a sort of refutation of the BDG. And if a GM play on this way with Black, I would not have more chance to win with another standard opening where the GM is better prepared, and stronger player. And it's not lame chess, it's just another interesting way of playing.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Trump
Guest


Re: What is your fav. black way of play against BD
Reply #15 - 08/01/05 at 09:06:50
Post Tools
The conclusion about the BDG is clear. Black can easily equalize in the lemberger(4..Bb4), when, against a decent opponent, white get a position with no winning chances . I really wonder why any strong player would use such an approach regulary, if the opponent has a chance to prepare?Why would any GM use such a lame way to play?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ArKheiN
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 728
Location: Belgium
Joined: 03/30/05
Re: What is your fav. black way of play against BD
Reply #14 - 07/31/05 at 23:27:11
Post Tools
Ok TopNotch you did not understand my point, maybe because my english is not perfect (Iam just learning it at school) When I say solid here, it is not with the idea to survive, because effectively if I only play to survive here, your pawn up should finish to kill me in an ending. When I say solid here, it's about the most solid choice, to still have an attacking play without being "refuted" like in the Zilbermints gambit. I have played a "slow" move here but I am still ambitious after 8.a3 !
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TopNotch
God Member
*****
Offline


I only look 1 move ahead,
but its always the best

Posts: 2211
Joined: 01/04/03
Gender: Male
Re: What is your fav. black way of play against BD
Reply #13 - 07/31/05 at 23:05:45
Post Tools
Quote:
Actually I dont think Zilbermints gambit is really sound against the best defense, but it was an interesting choice. It's for that after 7..Nc6 8.a3 should be the "solid" choice.


Translation - The BDG may succeed, but only against poor play, against tougher resistance White is solid and retains excellent drawing chances.

When a pawn down, being solid is not adequate compensation as the following equation clearly shows.

Pawn Down - Compensation = Loss.

Sir Topalot  Grin   
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ArKheiN
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 728
Location: Belgium
Joined: 03/30/05
Re: What is your fav. black way of play against BD
Reply #12 - 07/31/05 at 22:47:12
Post Tools
Actually I dont think Zilbermints gambit is really sound against the best defense, but it was an interesting choice. It's for that after 7..Nc6 8.a3 should be the "solid" choice.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10757
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: What is your fav. black way of play against BD
Reply #11 - 07/31/05 at 22:26:15
Post Tools
If 7...Nc6 in the Euwe Defense is strong and the Zilbermintz Gambit will not hold its own, than there is something to say for the Alapin Gambit.
The Diemer-Duhm Gambit is close to refutation - see Heikkinen's website.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ArKheiN
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 728
Location: Belgium
Joined: 03/30/05
Re: What is your fav. black way of play against BD
Reply #10 - 07/31/05 at 21:49:47
Post Tools
Hehe very interesting MNb, you mark a point here Wink I will analyse your response and if you are right, it would mean that I only should play normal theory when I face dxe4 in the French, or to change my way of playing against the French with a Diemer-Duhm or Alapin but I don't like so much theses pseudo-BDG. 

1.d4 d5 2.e4 e6 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.f3 Bb4 !? have been played also, and it doesnt look bad either. Is 4..e5 stronger? 

I will look at your "improvements", it looks really interesting.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10757
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: What is your fav. black way of play against BD
Reply #9 - 07/31/05 at 20:41:02
Post Tools
Then you have to find an answer to:
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.f3 e5! and
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 dxe4 5.f3 e3!?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo