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Poll Question: Why masters do not play the BDG more often?
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Masters do not like taking risks    
  2 (6.5%)
Masters do not like gambit play    
  4 (12.9%)
Masters are too conservative    
  5 (16.1%)
BDG is hard to learn    
  0 (0.0%)
Some masters are too chicken    
  2 (6.5%)
Positional chess is to blame    
  2 (6.5%)
Too much dogmatic thinking    
  2 (6.5%)
Other openings are as good    
  7 (22.6%)
Matter of style    
  2 (6.5%)
Depends on your Zodiac sign    
  5 (16.1%)




Total votes: 31
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) BLACKMAR-DIEMER GAMBIT (Read 43258 times)
woofwoof
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Re: BLACKMAR-DIEMER GAMBIT
Reply #98 - 08/13/05 at 01:23:23
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"maybe i'm wrong" - Just trying to reassure you that your thinking of gambit play is ok, castlerock  Wink

"I'm not sure about crazy ways of dropping a pawn, though. " - I'm hoping that statement doesnt include the KG! Grin 

just to add for interest..... there are some gambits like the Muzio & the Evans which heve been so extensively analysed to a draw (!). I  did find this interesting & amusing blanket statement from another forum where the topic was about "sharpest openings" - one of the replies was "sharp play = drawn games"!

coming back to the BDG..... the fanatics wont get a chance to play it against me either cos I'm into the KID  Grin
  

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castlerock
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Re: BLACKMAR-DIEMER GAMBIT
Reply #97 - 08/13/05 at 00:18:38
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I did not say gambits are wrong. Any *decent* opening is good at sub 2200 levels. I'm not sure about crazy ways of dropping a pawn, though.

Being a French player, BDG always amused me. With most BDG fanatics it is 1.d4 d5 2.e4 e6 0-1! Wink
  

CastleRock
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woofwoof
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Re: BLACKMAR-DIEMER GAMBIT
Reply #96 - 08/12/05 at 12:53:16
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There's nothing wrong with gambits per se. It does lead to interesting play most of the time.

At club level any opening is sound (forgot who said that) At the highest levels .....then there mght be some question put to some or even all gambits as pretty often the resulting positions may lead to what the very top might say 'positionally questionable or unsound etc' eg Botvinnik said of Tal something to the effect of "i was surprised that he was ignoring  the objectivity of the position'. ie he thought Tal's play was anti-positional. But Tal did suceed in making up for those 'weaknesses' with his open lines & unsettling sacs! At the highest levels positional soundness is more a priority & tactics nowadays come from 1st establishing 'sound posns' 1st. At club level &  coffeehose level tactics and tactics and tactics  predominate.

That's why i believe that in order to win the gambiteer MUST play forcing moves & make the most of the open lines & lead in development to compensate whatever 'positional weaknesses' that he may have to unsettle the opponent & not allow him the time to consolidate and exploit those so called 'positional weaknesses'. (Speaking from a KGer's perspective.)

As to whether the BDG offers good compensation for the pawn.....there are too few games at top level to make a definitive conclusion. but i suppose that the fact its SO rarely seen at the top must say something.   Undecided

  

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castlerock
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Re: BLACKMAR-DIEMER GAMBIT
Reply #95 - 08/10/05 at 01:57:26
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To put it another way, gambit play is like having sex with two or more women at the same time  Grin Wink   Positional play is like having sex with one woman all the time. Grin Wink




I always thought playing gambits are not obnoxious and are morally okay. May be I'm wrong Grin
  

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Re: BLACKMAR-DIEMER GAMBIT
Reply #94 - 08/09/05 at 16:28:04
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Thanks, but I don't think the D-Pawn forum can suffer yet another pointless thematic BDG match.  Grin 

Suffice it to say that every chessplayer will need to draw their own conclusions regarding the value of this Gambit.

While we're at it Lev, I was wondering, do you post about anything other than the BDG or is your chess experience limited to gambits alone.

Tops Grin


Markovich is right, you do seem to avoid backing up your claims with analyses or played games. At least Markovich has the courage to take the Black side in a BDG.

I do post about other openings than the BDG. My specialty is in gambits and unorthodox openings, also for unorthodox lines in regular openings. Check the thread "Flank Openings" for a discussion on the Hobbs-Zilbermints Gambit, 1 f4 h6! 2 Nf3 g5 3 fg5 hxg5 .   
Also, in the "Nimzo and Benoni" thread, I have discussion on the Zilbermints Benoni, 1 d4 c5 2 b4! and 1 d4 c5 2 Nf3 cxd4 3 b4!

I can play positionally as well as tactically. It's just that I don't like to play positionally, not because I do not know how. Gambits are fun to play; positional play can get boring.

To put it another way, gambit play is like having sex with two or more women at the same time  Grin Wink   Positional play is like having sex with one woman all the time. Grin Wink

Ha-ha-ha-ha!!!

  
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Re: BLACKMAR-DIEMER GAMBIT
Reply #93 - 08/08/05 at 18:44:56
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Thanks, but I don't think the D-Pawn forum can suffer yet another pointless thematic BDG match.  Grin 

Suffice it to say that every chessplayer will need to draw their own conclusions regarding the value of this Gambit.

While we're at it Lev, I was wondering, do you post about anything other than the BDG or is your chess experience limited to gambits alone.

Tops Grin
  

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Re: BLACKMAR-DIEMER GAMBIT
Reply #92 - 08/08/05 at 18:22:51
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Hello,

TopNotch, I daresay Markovich is correct.  Are you going to be more specific in your arguments against gambits? Or will you, to quote Markovich, be taking personal swipes? 

Why don't you play ArKheiN or Schoupal when they finish their games? It would be interesting to see you handle the Black side of a BDG.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: BLACKMAR-DIEMER GAMBIT
Reply #91 - 08/08/05 at 17:36:52
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Touche?!

Good to see that you have some spunk after all.

Congratulations.

Tops Grin
  

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Markovich
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Re: BLACKMAR-DIEMER GAMBIT
Reply #90 - 08/08/05 at 11:40:05
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Yes Marko, there was that one post about the Dragon and also This One from some time back. Now if we can just get a useful one from you that would be nice. Wink

Tops Grin


That other was before my membership here, but yes, thanks for pointing it out.  I do maintain my view that your posts here are long on blanket opinions and personal swipes, and short on actual chess.

As for mine, I do so regularly write here about specific chess ideas that I should hardly need to point to any of my posts.  But for example, I am putting a proverbial part of my anatomy on the line in my BDG demonstration game here versus ArKheiN.

I am always grateful to stronger players for their insights, expecially when they are insights and not blanket opinions such as "5...Be7 draws easily against the Belgrade" and "the King's Gambit is weak."  And although you seem to be a strong player, I'm not entirely certain that you are.  (Parenthetically, I myself am only a middling USCF NM; I can aquit myself reasonably well against FMs;  IMs I rarely defeat, though I have done so;  GMs never;  in cc I play to a somewhat higher standard.)  I do generally shut up and listen hard when an IM or GM is talking -- but I am not necessarily in similar awe of anonymous interlocutors here who merely claim to be strong players.

I would be quite happy to converse with you at length here, but I sincerely wish that you would talk about chess and not make so many personal swipes and little digs that seem purposed to aggravate people.  For example, I said that modern chess is full of excellent gambits, but typically based on something more than the advantage of the first move only.  I would be intested to hear how that fits in with your evident distaste for play in gambit fashion.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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TopNotch
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Re: BLACKMAR-DIEMER GAMBIT
Reply #89 - 08/07/05 at 15:57:10
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Yes Marko, there was that one post about the Dragon and also This One from some time back. Now if we can just get a useful one from you that would be nice. Wink

Tops Grin
  

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Markovich
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Re: BLACKMAR-DIEMER GAMBIT
Reply #88 - 08/07/05 at 10:43:41
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What personal swipes, Mr. Markovich? All I did was issue an invitation for you to play me and give your ideas substance over-the-board. That is not a swipe. FYI, a swipe is when there is name-calling, and in this case, there is none.

But let us change places for a moment. Suppose, for sake of argument, I maintained that a certain line of play -- Advance Variation in French or Caro-Kann -- could not be played by black as White gets a strong attack.  You then would say, "OK, let us play a few games to settle the argument."  Then I accept the challenge  and we play.
Now tell me, where is the swipe here? There is not any, that the whole point.

For your information -- and the reader's as well -- a line of analyses is deemed playable or not in over-the-board games. These games are the acid test of determining whether this or that variation passes muster.

Keep in touch. 


You seem not to have noticed that the remarks you quote were directed, not to you, but to Topnotch.  I certainly do not accuse you of making personal swipes in your posts here.
  

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Re: BLACKMAR-DIEMER GAMBIT
Reply #87 - 08/06/05 at 18:32:05
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Yes, well, I suppose I should have known that to attempt to engage you in a discussion about chess was only to invite personal swipes of this kind.  Still, one would occasionally like to see some actual chess ideas, as opposed to blanket assertions, sprinkled in amonst the personal remarks.  But, ah, there was that one post about the Dragon, wasn't there?


What personal swipes, Mr. Markovich? All I did was issue an invitation for you to play me and give your ideas substance over-the-board. That is not a swipe. FYI, a swipe is when there is name-calling, and in this case, there is none.

But let us change places for a moment. Suppose, for sake of argument, I maintained that a certain line of play -- Advance Variation in French or Caro-Kann -- could not be played by black as White gets a strong attack.  You then would say, "OK, let us play a few games to settle the argument."  Then I accept the challenge  and we play.
Now tell me, where is the swipe here? There is not any, that the whole point.

For your information -- and the reader's as well -- a line of analyses is deemed playable or not in over-the-board games. These games are the acid test of determining whether this or that variation passes muster.

Keep in touch.
  
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Re: BLACKMAR-DIEMER GAMBIT
Reply #86 - 08/06/05 at 17:08:54
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Ahem!....Lev, I think Markovich was actually agreeing with you there, at least in part, hard to tell really.  Grin

That said, I don't find any of his arguments compelling and he contradicts himself too much. In politics Markovich would be described as a flip flopper or double talker.

Sheesh....make up your mind already.

Tops  Grin  


Yes, well, I suppose I should have known that to attempt to engage you in a discussion about chess was only to invite personal swipes of this kind.  Still, one would occasionally like to see some actual chess ideas, as opposed to blanket assertions, sprinkled in amonst the personal remarks.  But, ah, there was that one post about the Dragon, wasn't there?
  

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Re: BLACKMAR-DIEMER GAMBIT
Reply #85 - 08/06/05 at 11:54:53
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Ahem!....Lev, I think Markovich was actually agreeing with you there, at least in part, hard to tell really.  Grin

That said, I don't find any of his arguments compelling and he contradicts himself too much. In politics Markovich would be described as a flip flopper or double talker.

Sheesh....make up your mind already.

Tops  Grin   


A man is allowed to change his opinions when he finds he is wrong in part or entirely.  In the Supreme Court this would be called disagreeing in part and agreeing in part.

I posted some more stuff in the BDG:EUWE:ZG thread, so check it out. Why don't  you and I play a few unrated games with the BDG? Give you a chance to prove your assertions/opinions about the BDG?  Say, G/30, G/60, evem G/90 time control?

  
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Re: BLACKMAR-DIEMER GAMBIT
Reply #84 - 08/05/05 at 16:37:45
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Ahem!....Lev, I think Markovich was actually agreeing with you there, at least in part, hard to tell really.  Grin

That said, I don't find any of his arguments compelling and he contradicts himself too much. In politics Markovich would be described as a flip flopper or double talker.

Sheesh....make up your mind already.

Tops  Grin
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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